Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

OK. so reading posts, thinking (never agood idea) and just all around observing, Is a Honda machine more effective because it runs at a higher RPM?

I have the Tiny Tach on my Simplicity and it runs at about 3500-3600 unloaded and it bogs to about 3200 with a load.

Make no mistake, I have  no performance issues with it but hearing the praises and the like, does a Honda run faster, and have faster "gearing" on the impeller so the snow goes farther.

It depends on the overall design of the impeller, auger, housing, chute, and the snow condition.  For snow to throw well, you need critical mass so that there is enough momentum when the snow leaves the chute without dispersing.  On dry powder, more RPM only means you create a nice cloud of snow with very little distance.

Too high of RPM will only create cavitation.  A snowblower is essentially a pump.  The RPM and torque/hp has to be matched for best efficiency.

One of the reasons why the Honda throws a tight stream because there's a compaction and funnel effect which increases the exit velocity.  However, the throughput may be the same as an equivalent HP and width snowblower from other brands.  The Simplicity/Deere snowblower are the most closely matched to the Honda big models in terms of throughput and tight stream.

Higher impeller rpm will move more snow than the same impeller moving at less speed provided the augers can supply sufficient snow.   The engine speed is obviously relevant.   I'm not certain but the Honda engine should be running at 3600 rpms as well.  If the Honda engine and B&S engine are both turning at the same rpms, gearing will be responsible for higher impeller speed. 

I have a Simplicity with the 305cc B&S engine on it and have no complaints with it's ability to move snow.  I had a mini tach on mine for a while and noticed that rpm would only drop by about 100 t0 150 rpm.  That would be 3500 to 3450 under substantial load.   Dropping to 3200 rpm seems to be quite a bit but it could be in need of a governor adjustment or just the nature of the engine.  As long as the engine doesn't drop below it's maximum torque rpm (usually 3000 rpm), you'll not be losing much efficiency.   

"The Simplicity/Deere snowblower are the most closely matched to the Honda big models in terms of throughput and tight stream."

I'm not sure if the plastic liner that I put in the chute of my machine had an effect on distance/stream or trajectory but I don't think it hurt anything.  When I roll the machine into an 18"  drift of "perfect" snow, it brings a smile to my face.  The machine starts to bark and the snow flies out like it's coming from a huge fire hose.  I've never actually measure distance because there's almost always a brisk wind west blowing after a big dump.  I have to move snow onto my lawn which is west of the driveway.   Occasionally, I'll get an hour or two of calm in the morning  and if the snow is just right, I can put it close to the middle of the lawn which is 75' across.   Distance is good but volume is more important.

Most machines on my street (which is rural and a bit over 1/2 mile long), are Craftsman, and other MTD derivatives.  They all get the job done.   A guy across the street bought a Honda 724 and for it's size, it's impressive but not quite up to the same capability of the Simplicity which is quite a bit larger.  There's the odd Ariens and Toro on the street that are also very capable.  

By mid winter, you can tell who has the machines that throw the best.   The guys with the lesser machines have five foot high snow banks and their driveways start to get narrower.  The owners of better machines have no loss in driveway width,  snow banks half the height and a four foot bank of snow down the middle of their lawns.  

borat wrote:

I wouldn't "reasonably "expect the Honda 724 with a diminutive 196cc engine to compete with behemoths 250-350cc equipped snowblower.

For what the HS724 at 196cc is, it does what it does decently for a "junior" 2 stage.  As far as price, a Honda is a Honda.  It is what it is.

From what you have described, seems like your neighbor should have gotten an HS928 or larger engined snowblowers for those conditions.

aa335 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything you say.  

As I said, for it's size, the 724 is a very respectable snow mover.  However, for it's Canadian price of $3000.00 or more, it's not.   There are several machines half the cost that move snow better. 



 

Now that the Canadian currency is so strong against the US dollar, a $3000 Honda HS724 is a hard pill to swallow.  Add in GST and PST, it's just crazy.  I'm not sure why pricing is so brutal there, especially for Honda and Toro products.  If that's the case here in the US, I'd pass on socialized medical plan.

Seems like Honda and Toro dealers in your area are not the kindest cuts.  If I was in similar market, I'd lean towards Simplicity for those kind of price discrepancy. 

However, the Toro and Honda dealers in my area decent with uniform and reasonably fair pricing, no games.

If a comparable Honda were the same &1500.00 I paid for my Simplicity, I'd probably buy one.  Even if it were a few hundred more I'd buy one.  But for more than double the price??? 

Not going to be a happening thing. 

Dealers around here demand maximum prices for everything.   Even my Simplicity would have been a good $500.00 had I bought  it in town.  As it was, I found it in a little village at a Massey Ferguson farm tractor/implement dealership.  If the tractor store can sell it for the price I paid and still make money on it, the dealer in town is obviously gouging. 

Sounds like practices of under supplying the retailers that does meet not market demand and "relaxed" price control.  A bit socialist, if asked.

Why produce more if less gets you more money?  A funny concept of consumer funded subsidy.

OK.  Off my soapbox now.  :)

Canadians get gouged every way possible when it comes to large consumer products.  Automobiles for example were $10K to $20K higher priced than the same vehicle 30 miles away on the other side of the border.   When Canadians started buying from US dealers around two years ago, the Canadian dealers went ballistic.   They tried every angle possible to get the Canadian government to put an end to it.  They claimed safety issues such as speedometers not being metric, U.S. vehicles not having mandatory roll over  fuel cut out switches etc.   Since then, Canadian dealers have lowered their prices substantially.   The goose isn't laying as big a golden egg as it did three years ago. 

Some aspects of NAFTA actually work in favour of consumers.

Sorry for being off topic. 

Horsepower = Torque x RPM, but Torque is not constant across the rev spectrum of an engine.

For gasoline engines, there is generally very little torque at low rpms, flat torque across the middle rpms, and then a drop off as the engine starts spinning too fast for complete combustion.

So, the short answer to your question is that the direct relationship between horsepower and torque changes the across the rpm range and the resultant horsepower curve will vary as the rpm changes.

Starwarrior