Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've got an old snowblower that will not start even though we emtied all old gas from it , checked the spark-plug- ignition! and the new gas entered the carburettor but obviously not the cylinder why it didn't start. The snow blower is old but not much used 3-4 winters and for two years ago there was no problem whatsoever.

It is an ARIENS ST 504 motornumber HS 50670080 and serialnumber 93338.

We got a tip to change the diaphragm but does anyone know anything else we can do. The snow is coming in Sweden and I don't like showelling.

Come on Stig! This Swedish born Canadian thinks you better get busy with the repairs; my uncle e-mailed me yesterday saying that they had a metre (40") of snow on the south coast of Sweden, more than he has seen in his 75+ years.

God Jul and Gott Nytt Ar to you too!

Svensk i Kanada

Bus708, I do agree with your approach however you know how trickey carbs can be and I found the average joe will totally screw up the carb in the process. 9 times out of 10 the machine will end up in the shop with what is left of the carb parts in a box.

No doubt if the spark plug is dry after priming and cranking it over a few times the carb is most likely gunked up. With the MTBE and Ethenol they are putting in the fuel if don't use an additive you can be doomed in just a few months.

Short of taking the carb off and rebuilding it, back out the mixture screw, hit it with a shot of carb spray and a shot of air to clear out the port. Just to enlighten the novice here, count the number of turns while turning the mixture screw in until it lightly seats so you can back it out the same number of turns and it will get you right around the same mixture setting. Most Techumseh carbs also have a float bowl mixture screw and a 1/2 turn in each direction will generally clear out the bowl jet.

Finally a quick shot of starting ether in front of the air intake before cranking it over and you will surely get her to fire up. Once it is running let it warm up a little and you can adjust the mixture and bowl adjusting screws for a smooth operation.

After all is said and done if it seems to be running OK, change the oil, clean the air filter and you should be good go.

Like I said before, carbs can be very tricky. If after you perform the above operation you can't it get it to run right, I would suggest taking it to a local repair shop. 

The real answer to this dilema here though so is does'nt happen to you again next year.... ALWAYS USE A FUEL ADDITIVE AND RUN IT DRY BEFORE A LONG STORAGE. 

Starwarrior

Borat you are absolutey right and based on the blog trail it is pretty apparent that a few of you guys actually do know what you are talking about.

There is nothing much to a carb overhaul, a $10.00 carb kit, soak it, clean out the ports, adjust the float bowl settings, a few link rod adjustments, and she is good as new.

I have spent a few years with my little drill bits opening up the metering jets to obtain better performance and I lost count how many titanium mixture screw covers I have popped off over the years but I have found the average Joe gets lost just trying to figure how to adjust more than one float setting. (I don't think I have to go there) How many examples..Two float bowl gaskets or peice of gasket left on the seating plane. What little red gasket under the bowl jet or how many bent or reversed choke rods? And after all is said and done the machine is usually left  with half a tank of  fuel in the crankcase since the oil is usually the last thing to be changed nor has it ever been . 

Sometimes just a quick shot to clear out a little dirt in the float bowl or A/M port will work out just fine and as far as learning skills... The educated seem to be born with more thumbs.

Unless the tank is run dry and the fuel bowl drained, the single most important maintinance item for long term storage is fuel additive. 

Yeah, 50 to 100 bucks seems like alot of money but it is way cheaper than a new carb and rod bearings.

As for me,  I fog my engines before putting the machines away for the season. I also take out the metering screw and hit the port with a little WD.  Quite honestly the 10 minute effort will yield many years of top performance.

I stick by my story... For the average consumer, If a basic cleaning and maintinance effort doesn't help, take the machine to the shop and have it serviced.

Starwarrior

Right Borat, you may want to hunt for the 1% that is effective and it would be wise to read up on the damage that MTBE and Ethenol fuels are causing before you suggest alternatives.

It is not just about the flash point or octane rating of the fuel but also condensation and how ethenol fuels react with moisture over time. Just adding a good old can of Cristie Dry gas like you may have done a few years ago does not cut the mustard with ethenol fuels... (remember those days, 4 cans for $1.00)

Here is just one out of  thousands of white papers that have been published on the subject.

The introduction of water on E-10 fuel can be disasterous. E-10 can hold up to four teaspoons of water in suspension per gallon. Once this saturation point is exceeded, the solution separates and the gas floats on top while the ethanol and water mix on the bottom. This event is called "phase separation". Ethanol fuel can absorb enough water to reach it's phase separation point in just over 3 months at 70% humidity. While the phase separation slurry in itself can cause problems by clogging fuel systems, the more immediate problem is that the remaining gasoline has now lost it's original octane value which can cause poor running and in some cases engine damage. When phase separation occurs, the fuel should be drained and replaced.Fuel storage and winterization has to be handled differently when using E-10 fuels. Manufacturers are warning that fuels need to be stabilized if un-used for as little as 2 weeks. Not all stabilizers are known to be E-10 compatible. Non-alcohol based fuel stabilizer additives are a must for ethanol fuel.

Additive companies like StaBil, Tectron, and Lucas are making gazillions on fuel stabilizers due to the addition of ethenol.

As for Stig... Borat does have a point, when it comes to carburators and not unlike any project for that matter, if you take your time, work clean, and use a little common sense, you can be very sucsessfull. It's isn't brain surgery we are talking about here. Just in case though, I will start your invoice.

Starwarrior

It might be better to buy in small quantities and leftover used in the car.

"Doomed in a few months", isn't that a bit alarmist?.  There are people who read the forums and might actually think that some well founded caution.  

The accumulation of water in a tank over three months in average weather (sun and rain over time) is very small if any at all.  If there is some samll accumulation in the tank there will have to be conditions to make it have any effect.  Just what is that?  The water which would seperate over months in a still tank would amount (in my estimate from checking) to only a few to several drops.  That water in a still tank would form at the bottom and could possibly make it to the outlet into the bowl and sit.  It could then be drawn up into the carb throat and cause the plug to get wet during starting.  No great disaster there for that possibility.  What if the water sat in the carb bowl for a very long period.  Rust could form in the bowl, break off and plug a nut hole.  For that to happen would require a bunch of unlikely events.   When you use OPE you get it out fumble with it which causes shaking and sloshing of the tank.  The little water in there will go back into the gas.  When it in that state it will just be burnt off.  So for average events the accumulation of water in gas is not a factor.

You can get an idea of what water will form in gas by leaving a quart of gas in a large container outside for weeks to a month.  A small amount of water will sometimes form at the bottom.  With a little shaking it will go into the gas making it slightly cloudy and burn fine.  Most water that does get into gas is suspended in the gas and burns.  If it does make it over to the bowl it's sucked up with gas and burns.

What does Stable actually do?   Does it evaporate the water?  Neutralize it? 

From what I've seen by putting water into a large open container and adding stable is the same as water in a container without Stable.  If you shake the container water goes into the gas and couds it with or without stable.  After sitting for a long time the water forms in a blob at the bottom of the container with and without Stable.  Over a long time I don't find Stable has reduced any water.  With water gas and Stable blobs still form at the bottom just like with no Stable.  Stable did not reduce any water that I ever saw.   It blobs just like the water does.  If it's blobed up at the bottom of a tank it's not acting on the gas. 

Just what is the value of Stable and how does it do it? 

>>I've tried many over the years and have finally come to the conclusion that they're snake oil.   

   Me also.  Unless I see something concrete I’ll stick with the same view.

>>I did a few with various carb cleaners and got the same "no effect" results. 

   I did more myself with Seafoam and Stable and got no where.   I even did the dump into the throat thing a few more times with catches for anything that might have been loosened and blown out of the exhaust.  Nothing but impressive amounts of white smoke. 

 I’m dumping gas from machines all the time and put it on a shelf in the garage in large top containers.  You can see the water accumulation over time.  I never did that with pre EPA gas so unsure just what the difference in accumulation is.  It would be interesting to know just how much water would accumulate in old gas over new in 1 gallon over time.  I doubt if it would be much of a difference or make much of a difference. 

>>The misinformation we've been reading/hearing about the perils of E10 fuel is pure b.s.  

   Right, no consideration for extent or amount.  Water happened with the old fuel and with the new. 

>>I leave E10 gasoline in five gallon gas containers for five to seven months at my camp over winter with no additives. 

   Same here at the camp. 

    I guess anyone reading this could get a flashlight and look into their blower gas tank and refill tank that has been sitting for a while and look for any blobs at the bottom.   Don’t shake the tank before looking. If the tank is tilted like on many snowblowers the blob will be at the lowest level.  They are tough to see.  If none found note how clear the gas is and shake the tank.  If there is any significant blob you missed the gas will cloud.