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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

MTD track versus Honda 928 track
Original Message   Dec 5, 2010 9:44 am
New Yorker:  Start a place where you'll hopefully update your experience with your new Honda.

New Yorker: >>Sorry but 'overdriving' is impossible.  The machine was never out of its lowest speed position, and even that was unable to push the auger into the snow pile without me pushing it as well.  The Friction wheel rubber slipped, either because it was worn or the drive plate was worn smooth.  That is why I got rid of the machine and bought the Honda.  I'll have to use my strength to turn the Honda, the old Craftsman-MTD had steering triggers, but that is far easier than providing the forward movement of the machine.  If I bought a 'Friction Wheel' machine I'd never buy one with tracks again.  the Tires have a chance of slipping when they can't move forward, the track machine simply makes the friction wheel slip.  

------------------

From the reading of the last post and given your many replacements of the friction disk it seems you were overdriving the machine.  At least from my reading.  You may not think so and expect that the MTD should have handled the way you were using it.  Many friction disks later would suggest you expected too much from the machine. 

 

You mentioned wheel slipping versus the good bite of the track.  That’s what tracks do so something has to give when it can’t move forward and that’s the friction disk slipping.   If you dig in hard enough to have the wheels slipping often that will also be very tough on the friction disk. 

 

Your summary of all this is the friction disk did not match up to your expectations and a poor design for your use. A few on the forum think differently but it was your machine and you were springing for the disks.  Case closed, you got a Honda.

 

Since you have a great deal of experience with the MTD and now have a Honda I’d be very interested in your comparison between the two after you get some use with the Honda.  Please post what you experience is after a few outings with the Honda. 

 

The MTD was probably an 8 or 10hp and the Honda 9.  The MTD was well worn and you had an attitude against which may color your evaluation.  The Honda will be new and have full compression and a great tossing machine.  But if you can remember the MTD as when it was new and in peak condition and evaluate that to the new Honda that would be interesting. 

 

I’ve used a Honda 828 track and it was a fantastic machine.  I drove it into high hard pack and it got stymied just like other US 9’s and 10’s I drove into the same pile.   For most of your wet EOD it will probably be a big advantage over the MTD and have very little problem.  Anyway, keep in mind that a few of us would like to know how the two compare.

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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: MTD track versus Honda 928 track
Reply #6   Dec 8, 2010 8:42 am

>> MTD is the 'Fast & Cheap' manufacturer, not the innovator.

 

   Incorporating good features versus innovator as in "the first" is fuzzy.  Tough to say who was an innovator of a specific feature.  In the early years designs were all over the place.  Many designs were tried and dropped only to become standard later.  For example very early Hann Eclipse machines had an engine head mounted chute crank that ran from the handlebar dash to the back of the chute similar to what most use today.  There may be some now long gone maker before Hann who was “first”.   Ariens and others used this design later for many years.  Remote hood is another that I believe was introduced by a lesser maker and adopted by the big brands.

 

    I’d give MTD credit for a few things.  They seemed to be early in the use of a roller bearing on the hex shaft.  They use (now “used” unfortunately) double auger belts for many years and I don’t see that in going back quite a way in other machines.  I think Ariens introduced some models with double auger belts much later and touts them in their literature.  MTS’s screw chute worm is a marvel of cost reduction and functionality.

   How about a little credit for the MTD triggers?   Not sure if they were the innovator but certainly the ones who peaked the design which has proven itself over many years. 

 

>>  These machines were OK for most people, but they became problematic in heavy wet snow.

 

   They are not a Ferrari.  If you expect Ferrari performance from a Chevy you’ll be disappointed.

If you push it to perform like a Ferrari they will crap out as you know.

 

>>  The original drive plate is still in the machine despite its regualr roughening, after 14 years.  That suggests you'd be dead wrong about wearing the disk faster.

   The reference was the not wearing the drive plate.  The reference was to the increased wear to the friction rubber.

 

>> The Reason one buys a Honda, at 3 times the cost of the rest, is that it reliably drives itself under load unlike the friction wheel gizmo.

 

For you maybe but most people have no idea how a snowblower works and seldom a factor in the purchase of a snowblower.   They might learn from a salesman about “hydrostatic drive” but have no idea what it really is and certainly not realize any difference to a friction disk which they don’t have any knowledge of.

I’ve got a Honda HS70 here that is a friction disk design and an HS80 which has hydrostatic.  It’s doubtful that either one will be a big advantage over the other.  The HS70 as a sub-transmission to give more range to the speeds so should be fine for slow and fast clearing.

 

>>I doubt the augers and impeller turn any faster than most other machines, after all that part of the machine mimics all the other snowblowers.

 

    Take a look at an exploded view of your Honda auger gearbox and housing.

    In a very general sense all toss about the same for size and horsepower and most who want distance just swamp the consideration with a bigger engine.  But some machines have a big difference in the refinement of blower section.  Honda and Yamaha use, with some slight variation in various models years, four roller bearings in the auger gearbox.  The augers are supported on roller bearings not flanges and as all an auger drive on a roller bearing.  Yamaha runs at 4000 rpm and Honda at 3600 but they have higher impeller and auger speeds than most.   They both get great distance when tossing and pick up wet snow very well. 

tkrotchko


Location: Maryland
Joined: Feb 9, 2010
Points: 143

Re: MTD track versus Honda 928 track
Reply #7   Dec 15, 2010 9:42 pm
I owned an MTD track machine for 13 years and I can't say enough good stuff about it. I replaced the friction disk once and it was due for another disk soon. I think the friction disk is a brilliant invention, and I like the simplicity. There's nothing to break. The only weak part of the machine is the cable system used to control things. The cable for the auger & drive had a spring mounted on the end of the cable and the spring would break once a season. It wasn't hard to replace, but in the middle of a snowstorm it was discouraging. And the steering system was great, except the cable system always came loose at the wrong time. Loctite was my friend. Despite that, it ran strong, even when paint came off the bucket it never rusted, and after 13 years of hard use, I got $600 selling it to somebody over the summer (I paid $900). How can you complain about that? I was starting to snap bolts that had fatigued over the years, but so what? Bolts were $1 each. The Tecumseh sno-king engine ran great after my late (great) father showed me a trick how to clean the jet on the carb in under 5 minutes. It started first pull for 13 years. I bought some MTD paint, and it looked like new. MTD makes fine stuff. Its simple, and I mean that in a good way. My son and I took the entire drive system apart in the dead of winter to grease it up after days of use with all the snow we had. We did it with a total of 4 wrenches, too. Despite that, I got the Honda, because my experience with Honda Equipment led me to greatly respect their engineering and their toughness. But I'd have no problem buying an Ariens or Toro. They were my 2nd choice. This stuff is all pretty good these days. Well, most of it, anyway.
New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

Re: MTD track versus Honda 928 track
Reply #8   Dec 17, 2010 9:27 am
trouts2 wrote:

>> MTD is the 'Fast & Cheap' manufacturer, not the innovator.

 

   Incorporating good features versus innovator as in "the first" is fuzzy.  Tough to say who was an innovator of a specific feature.  In the early years designs were all over the place.  Many designs were tried and dropped only to become standard later.  For example very early Hann Eclipse machines had an engine head mounted chute crank that ran from the handlebar dash to the back of the chute similar to what most use today.  There may be some now long gone maker before Hann who was “first”.   Ariens and others used this design later for many years.  Remote hood is another that I believe was introduced by a lesser maker and adopted by the big brands. MTD makes an O-K product, nothing great, lots of stuff that rusts, making such a machine last is costly, labor intense, and requires deatiled care.  I'm still comfortable with my previous assesment of them.

 

    I’d give MTD credit for a few things.  They seemed to be early in the use of a roller bearing on the hex shaft.  They use (now “used” unfortunately) double auger belts for many years and I don’t see that in going back quite a way in other machines.  I think Ariens introduced some models with double auger belts much later and touts them in their literature.  MTS’s screw chute worm is a marvel of cost reduction and functionality.

   How about a little credit for the MTD triggers?   Not sure if they were the innovator but certainly the ones who peaked the design which has proven itself over many years. Previous comment sustained. 

 

>>  These machines were OK for most people, but they became problematic in heavy wet snow.

 

   They are not a Ferrari.  If you expect Ferrari performance from a Chevy you’ll be disappointed.

If you push it to perform like a Ferrari they will crap out as you know. Once the machine is set so that the Friction Wheel rides at the center of the drive plate it is as slow as it can go, and has as much power as the design can transmit to the tracks.  I "push The Machine" because it simply would not move at all otherwise.  Ferrari ?  Chevy ?  I Wish !  Try Rusted Out Yugo, a car I understand often required pushing to make it go.

 

>>  The original drive plate is still in the machine despite its regualr roughening, after 14 years.  That suggests you'd be dead wrong about wearing the disk faster.

   The reference was the not wearing the drive plate.  The reference was to the increased wear to the friction rubber.  The rubber that was in need of replacement every 2 years because it was too narrow, make that flimsy, and wore when driven at its lowest most powerful and slowest speed into heavy wet snow.  This machine is fine for light powder, unsuitable for Wet, Heavy, Salt Laden, Driveway Blocking previously Plowed pile blocking the driveway.

 

>> The Reason one buys a Honda, at 3 times the cost of the rest, is that it reliably drives itself under load unlike the friction wheel gizmo.

 

For you maybe but most people have no idea how a snowblower works and seldom a factor in the purchase of a snowblower.   They might learn from a salesman about “hydrostatic drive” but have no idea what it really is and certainly not realize any difference to a friction disk which they don’t have any knowledge of.

I’ve got a Honda HS70 here that is a friction disk design and an HS80 which has hydrostatic.  It’s doubtful that either one will be a big advantage over the other.  The HS70 as a sub-transmission to give more range to the speeds so should be fine for slow and fast clearing.   When purchasing a snowblower in 2010, as I just did the choice was between the Friction Wheel system I had already discovered the hard way, that was labor intensive, maintenance intensive, and proved to be poorly suited to the heavy work I purchase such a machine to perform, and the machine that had the better system far more likely to have less maintenance and repairs, but most important of all, one that would Do The JOB !  As to what Other People do, or need to be done, I sincerely doubt that I could possibly Care Less about that.

Merry Christmas !

 

>>I doubt the augers and impeller turn any faster than most other machines, after all that part of the machine mimics all the other snowblowers.

 

    Take a look at an exploded view of your Honda auger gearbox and housing.

    In a very general sense all toss about the same for size and horsepower and most who want distance just swamp the consideration with a bigger engine.  But some machines have a big difference in the refinement of blower section.  Honda and Yamaha use, with some slight variation in various models years, four roller bearings in the auger gearbox.  The augers are supported on roller bearings not flanges and as all an auger drive on a roller bearing.  Yamaha runs at 4000 rpm and Honda at 3600 but they have higher impeller and auger speeds than most.   They both get great distance when tossing and pick up wet snow very well. 

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