Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

New Yorker:  Start a place where you'll hopefully update your experience with your new Honda.

New Yorker: >>Sorry but 'overdriving' is impossible.  The machine was never out of its lowest speed position, and even that was unable to push the auger into the snow pile without me pushing it as well.  The Friction wheel rubber slipped, either because it was worn or the drive plate was worn smooth.  That is why I got rid of the machine and bought the Honda.  I'll have to use my strength to turn the Honda, the old Craftsman-MTD had steering triggers, but that is far easier than providing the forward movement of the machine.  If I bought a 'Friction Wheel' machine I'd never buy one with tracks again.  the Tires have a chance of slipping when they can't move forward, the track machine simply makes the friction wheel slip.  

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From the reading of the last post and given your many replacements of the friction disk it seems you were overdriving the machine.  At least from my reading.  You may not think so and expect that the MTD should have handled the way you were using it.  Many friction disks later would suggest you expected too much from the machine. 

 

You mentioned wheel slipping versus the good bite of the track.  That’s what tracks do so something has to give when it can’t move forward and that’s the friction disk slipping.   If you dig in hard enough to have the wheels slipping often that will also be very tough on the friction disk. 

 

Your summary of all this is the friction disk did not match up to your expectations and a poor design for your use. A few on the forum think differently but it was your machine and you were springing for the disks.  Case closed, you got a Honda.

 

Since you have a great deal of experience with the MTD and now have a Honda I’d be very interested in your comparison between the two after you get some use with the Honda.  Please post what you experience is after a few outings with the Honda. 

 

The MTD was probably an 8 or 10hp and the Honda 9.  The MTD was well worn and you had an attitude against which may color your evaluation.  The Honda will be new and have full compression and a great tossing machine.  But if you can remember the MTD as when it was new and in peak condition and evaluate that to the new Honda that would be interesting. 

 

I’ve used a Honda 828 track and it was a fantastic machine.  I drove it into high hard pack and it got stymied just like other US 9’s and 10’s I drove into the same pile.   For most of your wet EOD it will probably be a big advantage over the MTD and have very little problem.  Anyway, keep in mind that a few of us would like to know how the two compare.

I can already offer you this.  The MTD -Craftsman began having paint failure almost immediately, the paint flaked off the auger and impeller housing in large pieces.  I first called Sears, they had me call MTD.  The lady from MTD, was obviously reading a computerized script, and began to tell me how the machine should never get wet ( I suspect this was advice predicated on lawn equipment), so I reminded her that the MTD machine we were discussing that had major paint failure problems was designed for the sole purpose of moving Water in its solid state, hence keeping it dry was simply not an option. they offerred to replace the machine which was then discontinued so i kept it and it worked intermittently well for 14 years.  The maintenance prompted me to acquire the MTD repair manual, which is sizable, and I still have it.

The drive problems began in fits and starts.  Light Powder snow was never a problem, but the end of the driveway slush laden with road sand & salt was never a slam dunk.  As the snowblower aged it became obvious that something was not right.  I read the owners manual, learned the Friction wheel disc rubber needed replacement and figured out how to do it.  Eventually the new friction wheel rubber still did not do the job so i began 'roughing-up' the Drive Plate, as per the instructions.  After much fiddling around I managed to get everything working and that usually lasted a little more than a year on average.  Last years February Blizzard  had me pushing the machine for it was incapable of driving itself into the heavy wet snow on its own power.  By now the carbueretor was failing (they never put air filters on snowblower carbs), so i did the( 'take-it-in-to-a-repair-shop) math on the cost and decided it had seen its day, and I was too old, too impatient, and too poor to pay for a major repair to my well rusted 14 year old Sears snowblower, I gave it away and bought the Honda.

Incidentally, anyone wishing the MTD repair Volume for 14-15 year old lawn product and/or snowblower repairs should let me have their address. I'll send it to you.  It seems a shame to just throw it out.  I also have the owners manual for the Sears Craftsman model 247.885690 9 HP 26" 2 stage Track Drive Snow Thrower.  I bought it on November 30, 1996 for $ 1,223.21 New York State 8.25% Sales Tax Included.

The only discernable advantage of the old-current MTD design was the trigger steering, the new Honda is steered by the operators brute force since the tracks only go forward or back, no steering mechanism.  My back will have to get back to you on the experience once I use the machine. The Techumsuh Engine had a displacement of 318 cc's (19.43 Cubic Inches) The impeller was a modest 12" diameter the auger was also only 12".  It was listed as weighing 175 Pounds.  I installed a fuel line shut off, and a switch to turn the light on and off, otherwise it was a stock machine.  The show throwing ability was always capable enough, it was the forward drive force that was always a problem.  I only rarely replaced a shear pin on the auger.

Sounds like Dave moved from NJ to NY recently.

   The paint on an MTD is not the best but I’ve seen plenty of old machines that still had great paint.  Maybe you got one with a bad batch or have lots of salt.  They need to be kept clean and dry. 

 

    You probably had the stock 826 that was around forever regardless of model number changes.  They had minor changes and rolled part numbers but the basic machine has been pretty much the same. 

 

>>'roughing-up' the Drive Plate, as per the instructions.

   That’s a surprise.  I’d never do that.  It probably contributed to a faster demise of disks.  The most I do is clean with carb spray.

 

>>well rusted 14 year old Sears snowblower

    Fourteen years is not so bad.

 

>>The only discernable advantage of the old-current MTD design was the trigger steering

     The triggers are great.  It seems like a feature that will become standard soon in all machines. 

 

>>My back will have to get back to you on the experience once I use the machine.

     The Honda should not have problems clearing its own path in wet or dry snow.  It will rise up on hard pack like the rest and come to a dead end like any of the better machines.  It should greatly outshine the MTD first because it’s new with an excellent motor and also faster augers and impeller.  The Honda should not be bad if you don’t have a lot of short turns for nooks.  For general average conditions clearing it will be interesting for the compare of triggers to none.  I think you’ll miss the triggers but there will be too many plusses to swamp that.

I can't really say much about the Honda but I owed a 8HP MTD 26" Track for 14 years and it cleared a 12' x 125' driveway.

First hand the machine turned on a dime and the trigger mechanisms made it manuverable beyond belief.

Low gear was super low and slow but that is exactly what you want when you have to get in and around curved landscapes and entrance ways.

It did have a tendancy to ride up in pack but I would simply reverse and hit it a couple more times. I figure it could have used a little more weight up front but every three years I also needed to replace the front skids. Even the heavy duty reversables seemed to wear out pretty quickly.

My reason for replacing it was simply after 14 years of service, parts wear and become harder to find. When the dag nab thing breaks down, you don't find out about it in July.

I would really rather Git-R-Done and nurse a cup of coffee while I watch the rest of the neighbors on my block demonstrate the mechanical method of snow removal. It's a lost art for sure.

Of course I spend an extra hour or so helping out a few buds on the block but I am certainly not going to play snow fairy.

One time, at band camp, I figured I would help out one poor sole after a nice 12 incher. Well I sucked up his town newspaper and it jambed between the second stage impeller and the impeller housing. It took me over 2 hours to dig the dag nab thing out. (That is the newspaper I'm talking about and as far as I was concerned he was on his own after that)

All joking aside. The MTD Track model treated me very well for 14 years and blasted through quite a few storms. I have absolutely no regrets.

Regardless of which machine you choose, you simply want to Git-R-Done as fast and easy as possible so you can get inside where it's warm. 

Starwarrior

 

trouts2 wrote:

>> MTD is the 'Fast & Cheap' manufacturer, not the innovator.

 

   Incorporating good features versus innovator as in "the first" is fuzzy.  Tough to say who was an innovator of a specific feature.  In the early years designs were all over the place.  Many designs were tried and dropped only to become standard later.  For example very early Hann Eclipse machines had an engine head mounted chute crank that ran from the handlebar dash to the back of the chute similar to what most use today.  There may be some now long gone maker before Hann who was “first”.   Ariens and others used this design later for many years.  Remote hood is another that I believe was introduced by a lesser maker and adopted by the big brands.

 

    I’d give MTD credit for a few things.  They seemed to be early in the use of a roller bearing on the hex shaft.  They use (now “used” unfortunately) double auger belts for many years and I don’t see that in going back quite a way in other machines.  I think Ariens introduced some models with double auger belts much later and touts them in their literature.  MTS’s screw chute worm is a marvel of cost reduction and functionality.

   How about a little credit for the MTD triggers?   Not sure if they were the innovator but certainly the ones who peaked the design which has proven itself over many years. 

 

>>  These machines were OK for most people, but they became problematic in heavy wet snow.

 

   They are not a Ferrari.  If you expect Ferrari performance from a Chevy you’ll be disappointed.

If you push it to perform like a Ferrari they will crap out as you know.

 

>>  The original drive plate is still in the machine despite its regualr roughening, after 14 years.  That suggests you'd be dead wrong about wearing the disk faster.

   The reference was the not wearing the drive plate.  The reference was to the increased wear to the friction rubber.

 

>> The Reason one buys a Honda, at 3 times the cost of the rest, is that it reliably drives itself under load unlike the friction wheel gizmo.

 

For you maybe but most people have no idea how a snowblower works and seldom a factor in the purchase of a snowblower.   They might learn from a salesman about “hydrostatic drive” but have no idea what it really is and certainly not realize any difference to a friction disk which they don’t have any knowledge of.

I’ve got a Honda HS70 here that is a friction disk design and an HS80 which has hydrostatic.  It’s doubtful that either one will be a big advantage over the other.  The HS70 as a sub-transmission to give more range to the speeds so should be fine for slow and fast clearing.

 

>>I doubt the augers and impeller turn any faster than most other machines, after all that part of the machine mimics all the other snowblowers.

 

    Take a look at an exploded view of your Honda auger gearbox and housing.

    In a very general sense all toss about the same for size and horsepower and most who want distance just swamp the consideration with a bigger engine.  But some machines have a big difference in the refinement of blower section.  Honda and Yamaha use, with some slight variation in various models years, four roller bearings in the auger gearbox.  The augers are supported on roller bearings not flanges and as all an auger drive on a roller bearing.  Yamaha runs at 4000 rpm and Honda at 3600 but they have higher impeller and auger speeds than most.   They both get great distance when tossing and pick up wet snow very well. 

I owned an MTD track machine for 13 years and I can't say enough good stuff about it. I replaced the friction disk once and it was due for another disk soon. I think the friction disk is a brilliant invention, and I like the simplicity. There's nothing to break. The only weak part of the machine is the cable system used to control things. The cable for the auger & drive had a spring mounted on the end of the cable and the spring would break once a season. It wasn't hard to replace, but in the middle of a snowstorm it was discouraging. And the steering system was great, except the cable system always came loose at the wrong time. Loctite was my friend. Despite that, it ran strong, even when paint came off the bucket it never rusted, and after 13 years of hard use, I got $600 selling it to somebody over the summer (I paid $900). How can you complain about that? I was starting to snap bolts that had fatigued over the years, but so what? Bolts were $1 each. The Tecumseh sno-king engine ran great after my late (great) father showed me a trick how to clean the jet on the carb in under 5 minutes. It started first pull for 13 years. I bought some MTD paint, and it looked like new. MTD makes fine stuff. Its simple, and I mean that in a good way. My son and I took the entire drive system apart in the dead of winter to grease it up after days of use with all the snow we had. We did it with a total of 4 wrenches, too. Despite that, I got the Honda, because my experience with Honda Equipment led me to greatly respect their engineering and their toughness. But I'd have no problem buying an Ariens or Toro. They were my 2nd choice. This stuff is all pretty good these days. Well, most of it, anyway.

trouts2 wrote: