Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm trying to decide between getting the Toro 826 2 stage snowblower with the 249 cc Briggs engine and freewheel steering or the Ariens 22" compact model with the 169 cc Robin subaru engine.  I need to clean about
2000 square feet of interlock along with my neighbor's yard when he's away in Florida on his winter vacation.   Any reviews, suggestions?  Thanks.

joed wrote:

I'm a Toro fan so I'd say go for the Toro, more power, easy to use. I have the 1028 not the smaller 826. But I really like Toro and the quick chute and the easy steering. This forum has a LOT of Ariens fans and they'll provide opinions about that model. The Toro is pretty powerful. You didn't say what kind of snow you get or how much and also how big is your EOD? Those are all factors as well.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Thanks for the response Steve.  Usually snowfalls here are around 10-15 cm (4-6").  Sometimes, we can get 20-30 cm (8-12").   The EOD stuff can be nasty too.  With our changing climate, we also get a mix of rain/snow along with regular snow too.  The driveway is about 45 feet long by 22 feet wide.  I also have to do the patios and walkways around the house.  Total is about 2000 sq. feet.  All of it is interlock.  My neighbour's driveway is about 40 X 20 feet.   I like both machines.  The Robin Subaru engine is excellent but I'm not sure if it's strong enough nor if the compact model is sturdy enough to last a long time.  The concern I have with the Toro is the length and width.  When I go around the corner of the house, I have about 29-30" in width and it's a very sharp turn.  The toro 826 is a long machine.  So, I'm not sure if I can get it through.  I also know you can get the plastic skid shoes for the Ariens so the interlock won't get scratched up.  I'm not sure if the Toro has the same option.  Does your Toro have the Briggs engine on it?

joed wrote:

I have the 10hp Briggs engine on mine. It sounds like you don't get too much snow and your driveway is pretty small. Mine is 220 feet long and the EOD is about 30 feet wide. I really should measure it. Except for your EOD you could almost use a single stage which would be better for patios. No problem turning the Toro just pull the handle and it'll spin on a dime literally and  the quick chute makes fast work of moving the chute. Funny how other brands need a motor to speed up their chute the Toro can whip from left to right and up and down pretty quickly. I have no idea if Toro has plastic skid shoes, for my use they'd be useless as they'd wear out too quickly. They do make some with wheels that are plastic and I think those would fit on the Toro. Someone posted a link in another post.

If size is a factor you will have to be certain whatever machine you buy will fit and do all the places you want. I think the 826 is a good machine and has a lot of power but it has to fit it the area you have. But with such a small driveway you could probably use a Toro single stage  like the 221Q and save a lot of $$$. It's much smaller and will easily fit in small places but it's not self propelled. but it won't scratch up anything either. How big is your EOD?

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Thanks Steve for the advice.  The length of my EOD is about 25 feet.  A single stage would be able to handle most of the driveway except the EOD which can be quite tall and heavy.   You make a good point about the cost of the Toro and whether it would be worth it.  The single stage toro is $900 while the compact Ariens 22" with the Robin Subaru engine is also about $900.   The Toro 826 is $1499.  All prices are Canadian.  I know the the Robin Subaru engine is excellent but I'm not sure if 169 cc will cut it.

I just picked up that exact Ariens a couple of weeks back, but I am still waiting for some snow to test it out in. My initial concern was about the motor as well. All accounts on here have been good for the subaru sx motors, but not much real world stories. My previous machine was a 24" with a 5.5hp l-head so I don't think that this motor will be any weaker than that by any means, and from what I have heard it is about a match for the 205cc Briggs. The motor on the Toro you are looking at is a 249cc so it should be a bit more powerfull. Probably comperable to the subaru sx21 (wish I could have gotten that motor). The way I look at it the 22" width may be a help to the smaller subaru motor as a wider bucket would only cause it to bog down more. As soon as I have a chance to use my machine I will def post an update on here as it appears a few people have been looking into this machine lately. In my area we mostly get pretty wet and heavy snow so hopefully this machine is up to the job, it certainly looks put  together well, and pretty stout for the price. I like the compact size, manuverability and ease of storage that comes with this machine.

Forcast says we might get some snow the end of this week, as far as if it'll be enough to try this bad boy out remains to be seen...

shiva916 wrote:
Thank you for the response Shiva.  Keep me update as to how your machine fares in the snow.  How is the transmission on that compact unit?  Does it move the machine at a good pace?

joed wrote:
The amount and type of snowfall you get would lead me more towards a Toro Single Stage than the Ariens Compact 22". It appears that for the most part, you would benefit more from the single stage than the 2 stage. Maneuverability, narrow width, interlocking pavers you don't want to scratch, patios and walkways, mainly 4" to 6" snowfall amounts, rain/snow mix, cost, etc... are all areas where a single stage has the advantage over a 2 stage. You could always tackle the EOD stuff by either staying on top of it throughout a storm (clearing it several times), attacking it in small bites or using the tried and proven shovel method of chopping the slop into a more manageable slop that the single stage can handle easier. It's a tough call as either one would fit your needs fairly well. Whatever you decide their will most likely be instances where buyers remorse rears its ugly head. You could always buy both and have all your bases covered!

FrankMA wrote:

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your advice. I was thinking of the same thing. Perhaps going with a compact 22" Ariens for the EOD stuff and a toro single stage for everything else. I was looking at the 221q or even the little Power Clear 180. The 221q is pretty big for a single stage. Combining it with the Ariens would take up too much space in my already crowded garage. So, I was thinking of that little power clear 180 with the 87 cc engine but I don't know much about it.

One suggestion might be to buy either a 221Q or 421Q and see how it performs this coming winter. It might be all you need to get everything done including the EOD. I think if you took your time on the biggest of storms, you'd be OK with a large single stage like the 221 or 421. That 421Q has a 163 cc 4 cycle power plant which should be plenty of power for heavier snowfalls and EOD issues. If you read through some of the older posts, you'll find plenty of folks that get by using just a single stage and have no problems at all. Some will start an argument if you even suggest that they consider a 2 stage....

Good luck my friend!

I would also second that recommendation by FrankMA.  Go with the 221Q or 421Q, skip the Powerclear 180 which I think is anemic compared to the Powerlite 325 which it replaces.  If you must get a small single stage as a companion to a 2 stage, get a used Powerlite.  They are very abundant used.

Hi Joe, as the guys above mentioned, having the ariens compact and the 221 may be a bit redundant. I'd pick one of the other and go from there. If you chose the 221 and felt it wasn't good enough for your needs, they seem to hold their resale pretty well. I'm not sure about the Ariens compact but I would assume that being a good, high quality unit as Ariens are, it should as well. You could also keep the 221 (which I find myself using my 221 for 98% of snowfalls around here anyways) and get a larger 2 stage when space or $$ is less of an issue. As Frankin MA mentioned, it might not be a bad idea to try one or the other and see how it performs over the winter for yo. Good luck :-) By the way, I took your advice on upgrading to the Echo PB770. It was great advice and I love the new blower - makes short work of the leaves :-)

Hi Joe, I know your question was a few posts back but as far as the tranny and speed on the compact 22...the tranny on the machine appears to be the same as the other Ariens Disk-O-Matic machines as far as I know. Speed wise you would normally be using speeds 1-3 for normal use as far as i can see just mving the machine around. There are 6 forward speeds and the fastest of those will leave you at a brisk pace which I can't see being used other than to move the machine around. I would not worry about speed with this machine.

As far as the single stage discussion, I agree that typical snow falls of around 6" may be better served by a good single stage. You don't list where you live but along the coast in MA where we might not get the big snow storms that they do to the north but we usually end up with some pretty heavy snow which I see better served by a smaller 2 stage. I live on a cut through road the and the plows make pretty frequent passes so the EOD can pile up pretty quick. A street in either directions get about 20% of the passes that I get here by the town plows so the EOD there may not be as bad but it's to the point that a single stage would be pretty useless to me at the EOD. I have used one in the past and it typically involved a lot of cutting up the pile with a shovel and then taking small bites with the single stage. I don't think you can go wrong with most Toro single stages as a neighbor next door has used one for 20+ years and it has served him well. Keep in mind he is retired and is typically out multiple times each time the plow goes by to keep ahead of the EOD mess. Working all day I come home to a pretty big pile at the EOD hence my desire for a 2 stage.

Thanks to everyone for the amazing advice. I appreciate it. If I were to go single stage, which is better the 221 or 421? I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. As mentioned. Typical snowfalls for us are 4-6" but the end of the driveway stuff can get nasty, especially when I come home from work. That's why I was thinking 2 stage. My neighbor has a toro 2 stroke single stage. It works good on his driveway but not so good on his EOD pile. I'm actually leaning towards biting the bullet and getting the Toro 826. Lot of money for me but maybe I should just spend it once. Dealer says he can put some rubber underneath the skid shoes to protect the interlock. Just not sure about that Briggs engine? Superbuick, glad you are enjoying the Echo PB770. It was great for me during leaf season too. The newest one that surpasses the Echo PB770 is the Shindaiwa EB854. What a blower this thing is.

What's your concern with the Briggs engine?  I've got a 305cc Intek Snow engine with Kool Bore on my Simplicity.  It's got about 75 hours on it and it's been a very good engine so far.  I have noticed that it uses a bit of oil.  However, not enough to be concerned about.  It starts on the first pull, is fairly easy on fuel and is very strong.   I never used to be a big Briggs and Stratton fan but from my experience with this engine, I've since learned to appreciate them.

joed wrote:
Hi Joe, have you looked into the Ariens Compact 26? same 26" as the Toro and the same motor that you are looking at on the Toro with the 250cc. Not sure on price difference, i know that the compact 26 is about $200 more than the compact 22 here in the states. While it doesn't have the quick stick like the Toro it does have the remote deflector. Not sure if you are looking at one brand over the other, but I know the compact 26 only has the pin lock like the other compact ariens not the freewheel steering like the toro.

borat wrote: On another thread, a poster recently bought an Ariens Platinum Deluxe 24" machine that came equipped with the 249 cc engine.  He's been experiencing backfire on shutdown and then the engine won't start until it cools down for a while.  I was wondering if the Briggs engine on the toro units did the same thing?

Shiva916
I haven't seen any compact 26" units here in Canada where I live.  We don't have as big of a selection here as they do in the U.S.  If I were going to go with the 26" width, I'd rather go with the Toro 826

joed wrote:

You often hear a lot from Ariens owners as there are a lot of them. I'm a Toro owner and I'd take the Toro 826 over the Ariens. The joystick chute control is great. It's easy to steer and it has plenty of power. My Toro has been super esasy to use and trouble free. Buy once Cry once. Ariens has gone down in quality over the years. Toro sells out faster around here than Ariens. Test them both if you can. I'm confidant the Toro will be teh better of the two.

I wouldn't be worried about the Subaru engine not being powerful enough. Before last season I bought the compact 24" with the Subaru engine and it has far more power than my previous blower's much larger Briggs engine. We had a very snowy winter and I had no problems at all. In the three days around Christmas we had about 24" of heavy wet snow. Through it all I never had any problems getting the job done with that 169 cc Subaru. EOD was not a problem either. A few days after the storm my neighbor had come back from visiting family out of state and was trying to tackle the 24", which had drifted in spots, with a shovel. I broke out my new blower and went right through the deep and drifted snow. It was half way up my chest and well above the top of the blower in lots of spots, so I had to let it dig in, then back out, let the snow fall down, and go back into it again, but it never bogged down or felt like it needed more power. By that time the sun had been out and caused some melting, so there was a nice layer of slush that had to be thrown too. It was one of the worse snows I'd ever seen and I had my doubts if the blower would make it through, but it passed that test with flying colors.

Hi Joe - I agree with Steve in having a preference for the Toro 826 over the Ariens compact, but that is more of a personal preference for me rather than a specific design or quality issue with Ariens.  I really like the quick stick on the Toros as well.

As far as the singles go, I've found the two stroke to be more powerful than the 4 stroke offered by Toro.  A Honda 621 (NOT a 520) is a good, powerful single stage if you have a strong preference for 4 stroke, but they are rare in the US.

One other thing to consider is with regards to space - you mentioned a tight area.  The Toro 826 is a large unit - I have one myself (a 726te).  I assume you've seen it in person, but its worth mentioning again.  If tight space is an issue, you may be better off with the Ariens compact or the single stage.

I'll have to check out that new Shindaiwa the next time I stop by the dealer - though I'm so happy with this PB770 I don't think I'll be wanting of another blower anytime soon :)

"I'll have to check out that new Shindaiwa the next time I stop by the dealer"

I was under the impression that Echo bought out Shindaiwa a couple years ago.  Try to find an active Shindaiwa dealership.  If you do, you'll find Echo products on the shelves and much fewer choices of the Shindaiwa line.   

borat wrote: You're right.  Echo did buy out Shindaiwa in 2008.  They've begun to share quite a bit of technology with each other.  The Shindaiwa EB854 is an amazing blower.  Here's a link to a video I did to compare my Shindaiwa, Sthil, and Echo blowers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYNi0dD2X98

I think I'll go into the dealer's at the end of the week to see these machines again.  I'm really torn as to which to get.  I like the toro 826 but not sure about space, price, nor the Briggs engine.  The Robin engine is terrific but I'm not sure if the Ariens compact is big enough for the job nor strong enough.  Love the single stage toros but then I'd have too many blowers in the garage and the wife would kill me.  Going to be a tough choice.

Hi Joe, I don't think you can really go wrong with either choice. The Toro is a very nice machine and I looked at it as well when I was checking out new blowers. I didn't have much money to play around with so I'm not going to lie the cheaper Ariens was much kinder on my wallet and for the size driveway I have i didn't think that a little wider machine would save me all that much time. A nice single stage may also serve all your needs as well so it won't be an easy choice for sure.

It's great to see some feedback about someone who has actually used a machine with the Subaru Robin motor on it. I have to say that while things can look great on paper I am more concerned as to how they actually do in the real world and I'm sure most people would agree. While not all snow is the same I look forward to actually taking my machine out and building my own opinion of it.

Update
Just a quick update and request for some more advice.  My dealer was nice enough to allow me to take home a demo toro 826 to see if it would fit around the corner of the home.  I really like the machine but here comes the bad news.  The 826 just barely squeezed through and that's with no snow.  I think with snow on the ground, it won't fit. So, I guess I'm going to have to go with a compact version.  The dealer has 3 choices:
1. The compact Ariens 22" with the Robin Subaru.
2. The compact Ariens 24" with the Robin Subaru.  Last year's model.  It only has a 17.5" housing vs a 20" housing on the 22".  Which would be of more value, greater housing height or greater overall width?
3. The compact Toro 722 powerthrow.  This has a 205 cc Briggs engine.  It doesn't have serrated augers like the Ariens.  Does that make a difference?

Anyhow, what would you recommend?  The toro is $999 and the compact Ariens are $850 on sale.

Thanks again.

Hi Joe, I think if it were my money in that case I would go with the Ariens 22. I personally feel that the taller housing is of more value than the wider housing in a situation like yours. The taller housing will be nicer on the big EOD piles - I don't think you'll be missing the extra 2 inches of width, especially in the tight areas. That toro is pretty long, huh? I remember being surprised at the length of mine when I got it home and in the garage.

joed wrote:

I'd say go with the smaller Ariens over the Toro 722. The advantages of the Toro are lost on the models that don't have their premier features.

Update #2

Well, after much thought, I decided to go with the Toro 826.  I figured out a way to get it through the tight spot around my house.  I got lucky too because my dealer had a sale going on this weekend to clear out some stock.  Normally the 826 goes for $1499 Canadian.  I got it for $1299.  Pretty good price considering the compact Ariens would have cost me about $900.  Though the Subaru engine would have been great, I still think that the Toro 826 is a much better unit than the compact Ariens, even with a Briggs engine on it.  Though it looks like a big machine when you first see it, I can't believe how easy it use to move with that freewheel steering.  Anyhow, all I need is snow to see how it works now.   Thank you so much to all of you for helping me out during this process.  I really appreciate it.  Big thanks to Steve too.  I saw your videos on Youtube with your Toro 2 stage unit and it helped to convince me that the machine was easy to use.

Im currently in the market for a snow blower as well and I have my eyes on the 826 OXE as well. But why were you comparing the compact with this model? IMHO the Ariens 24" Deluxe w/211 cc Subaru engine or the 24" Platinum with 249cc Brigs would have been more of a fair comparison. The compact is nothing more then an orange snotek. LOL

joed wrote:

Congratulations and welcome to the Toro family!

It's a great machine throws snow like magic and when I use mine especially on the EOD it always impresses me. Mine threw a 2"x3" piece of solid granite that had come loose from teh walkway and it threw it like 30-35 feet! No damage to my unit at all. So forget newspapers, granite is tough stuff. Post some pics of your new baby if you can.

My wife and I are planning more videos for YouTube with our Toro 1028 to measure throwing distances of various types of snow. Should be fun!

Glad I could help.