Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I am looking at purchasing my first snow blower.  My local shop carries Toro's and Ariens.  I live in northern NJ (morris county) and we had a lot of wet heavy/icy snow last year, so the wife has finally given in to the purchase. 

Our driveway is about 125' long and most of it is a about a single car lane, but it opens up to about 3 wide at the bottom.  Also my neighbor's drive way is adjacent to it and its about two cars lanes wide in front of their house and one car wide between the two houses.  So I'd have to throw the snow straight ahead when I am in the section between the two houses.

I'm currenty thinking of purchasing the Arien's 920013 (Compact 22).  Do you think a 6 HP engine will cut it, or should I be looking at a 7 HP?

New_Yorker wrote:
I strongly disagree. Friction wheel maintenance/replacement is a very simple job requiring only basic hand tools. No engineering degree required. The rubber part (on those that I am familiar with) is less than $10 and easily obtained and swapped out every 4-10 years. I've cleaned drive plates, but never roughened one up. That seems like a good way to shorten the life of the wheel.  For many, the hour of maintenance to replace a friction wheel more than makes up for the >50% price increase for a hydrostatic.

Also, while I'll never say Honda does not make a reliable machine, no present day machine has freedom from repairs - no matter who made it.

I've been using disk driven snow throwers for decades in demanding Canadian winter conditions.   Never had a problem with disks.   Auger drive belts usually  last around five seasons and wheel drive belts last forever.   I got an average of ten years of hard use out of moderate quality machines (Craftsman) and their weak point was chassis deterioration due to metal fatigue, cracked welds and parts falling off.   Propulsion and snow throwing components never failed and I have never even had to add gear lube to the auger drive gear case.   For the money,  even moderate quality units are a good buy and will last reasonably well if even modestly maintained. 

I think Honda is a great product.  However, they are NOT a great value.  I was shopping for  a new machine a few years ago.  I looked at all of the domestic brands and the Honda.  I bought a 928 Simplicity for half the price of a  Honda HS624.  I could buy a garage full of Honda machines if I wanted and I don't mind spending money.  However, I do have a problem paying more money than what I feel the product is worth.  Honda machines fall into that category.   Had the Honda been around $500.00 more than the Simplicity, I probably would have bought one.  However, being a full $1500.00 more than what I paid for the Simplicity, on a machine not nearly as big or powerful,  I found that to be overtly excessive.  Insulting actually.

Honda advocates will vehemently support their decision for spending the big bucks for whatever reasons.   To me, I really don't care what technical advantages Hondas have.   What matters is how much snow I can move in the least amount of time, with the least amount of effort and fuss and to put it where I want it.  The Simplicity does all of that with aplomb.   For what I paid, I doubt there was a better product out there at the time.  I got an 11 h.p. engine, on a chassis that's built like a tank, excellent mechanical controls, easy steer and single handed operation capability.  Everything on the Simplicity is very robust.  Massive cast iron gear case, wide diameter impeller and auger shafts, close clearance impeller and all metal constructions.  This is a top quality domestic machine and I got if for $1500.00 CDN out the door.  

I bought the Simplicity in the fall of 2007.  A guy across the street from me bought a brand new Honda 624 at the same time.   His driveway is half the sized of mine and it takes him twice as long to clear his.  For it's size, the 624 moves snow impressively.  However, it's NOT in the same class as the Simplicity for sheer volume of snow moved in a given period of time.  Nor can it throw it as far.  From what I see, the operator has difficulty maneuvering the machine due to the track drive.  Looks to me like he's struggling with it quite a bit and it is slow.   

Other than the bragging rights of being able to say "I own a Honda.", there is no clear advantage to me to own one.  Especially for more than twice the price.              

Thanks guys, but my wife spoke to my neighbor and he has a toro 1 stage and he said he's really happy with it.  I've been shoveling this thing for the last 5 years, so even if it gets a little bogged down, I can help it out.  For me (at this point) the extra $1000 bux to get a premium 2 stage vs a power clear doesn't seem worth it to me.  Guess I won't know until after a season or two.  Do you think the maintenance costs would go down with a 1 stage.  My friend said she needed to bring her 2 stage in and it cost a few hundred bux to service it.

The single stage Toro and the operator will be getting quite a workout for 125' drive.  It's doable, just takes longer.

Maintenance costs for the Toro single stage isn't that bad, I'm assuming you're looking into the 221Q or the 421Q.  That should be around $80 in rubber parts and scraper blade every two years, depending on use.   Takes about half an hour or less to put on and adjusting the belt tension.  So that's about $40 a year.  Run the gas out of the engine end of season before storing and that's basically it.  Wash it and wipe it down if you're particular.

I have a 12 year old Honda HS621 and I just did an overhaul on a machine that had virtually no maintenance on it for 8 years.  It was used with moderate hours but not abused.  Total costs was $200 in parts plus a paint job ($30 paint supplies) and it looks and works brand new.  So that's around $30 per year.  This is the result of all that hard work.  :)

Honda HS621 Refresh

My 2 stage snowblower is almost new and has very little hours on it.  It comes out to work when there's a big snowfall or punch a hole through the EOD pile.  The only maintenance so far is an oil change, wash, and wax.  It's a more complicated machine so I have to be diligent  to inspect everything over every season so small problems don't brew and spawn to become big problems.  Bigger and more complicated machines will inherently costs more to maintain, just the nature of the beast.

However, your purchase decision should be based on matching the machine to the job.  If you overtax the small machine, it will wear out faster and costs more to operate.

I live in Wisconsin, we get a boat load of snow. I would recommend an Ariens Pro series. Like the others have said, this is a long term purchase.

Just remember, you will be using it for the next 15-20 years. I know I have purchased items and years down the road, a said to myself, "why didn't I spend the $400 more and get the best".

Think about your situation and get a good value machine but certainly one that will perform for a long time. Get an Ariens model  #926037

Just my 2 cents...........

Bill

Single stage machines work great on hard smooth surfaces where the snow is not too deep.  The augers usually have a rubber edge that wears, but cleans smooth surfaces well.  If the surface is rough the machine will wear that rubber strip in short order, and small one stage machines are unsuitable for gravel drives.   But Good Luck with whatever you buy.

Copied from another thread:

"Canadian Winters would probably be significantly easier than what places like southern New England and Long Island get."

Do you think?  I could have sworn that parts of Canada are a bit north of New England.    

I live on the north shore of Lake Superior.  We get a great deal of lake effects snow. It's December 1st and we've already got over 14" of snow and almost all of it fell heavy and wet.  It rained here all day yesterday.  If it had fallen as snow, we would have received another 10  to 12" of wet snow.   We'll get snow right into mid to late April.  Last year, we received 30" of heavy wet snow on April 1st. 

Believe me, where I live, you're above statement couldn't be more inaccurate.  Machines in this neck of the woods see demanding service. 

Proper use and maintenance of the machine will go a long way toward keeping it functional.   I do my own maintenance and do frequent inspections/adjustments.  Neighbours who aren't as vigilant are packing their snow throwers into the back of their pick ups and hauling them in for service every two or three years. 

There's nothing wrong with disk drive systems.   They're simple, reliable and inexpensive to repair if and when necessary. 

New_Yorker wrote:

We do get a lot of the wetter snow here but they also get it up in Canada above us in Quebec Province. Some states tend to get a lot of powder but many States get crappy wet slushy snow. Higher elevations tend to get more powder, but not always. We rarely get powder and I'm in Central NH. The only way I can see wearing my Toro's drive plate out quickly is if I was running it full tilt into 3 foot high snowbanks of packed snow. Most pro's up here use Toro and Honda tracked machines. Drive an hour south and I have no idea what they use. Our city uses a beast of a machine for sidewalks. It doesn't throw it far but it will throw pure slush. It might throw further but they never do.

New_Yorker wrote:

What snowblower did you have?   In eastern Mass the snow is more than twice what you get and friction disks last from 10 to 30 years.  I've never heard of a drive plate having to be "roughed up",   Cleaned yes.   The sense of "never went longer than 2 years" suggests you probably went through a rubber in one year.   No machine built is that bad.  MTD is the worse I know of and down where you live an MTD friction disk should last 10 to 15 with proper use.  They do that up here.

Your machine must have had a defect and/or way out of adjustment.  If you kept replacing friction disks all the time it's like following the elephant with a shovel and not curing the problem.

>>"no easy task for a part not designed to be removed from the machine for regular service"

   It's very rare for the drive plate assembly to ever need repair.  Sometimes a bearing but anything more would be extreamly rare i.e. drive plate surface. I"ve seen lots of 30-40 year old machines and never had a drive plate surface problem unless there was some other cause which messed up the plate surface like using the machine with the rubber gone so metal to metal on the drive plate surface. 

   Making a negative generalization about friction disk based systems based on your experience is not justified.  The crop of friction disk snowblowers in use today probably makes up 99.8 percent with Honda and the rest of non-friction disk systems making up the rest.