Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

This is a Honda HS621 single stage snowblower.  It is at least 10 years old, I think more like 12 years old.  It had been in good service all these years.  However, most of these years it did not receive the TLC it should have gotten considering the caliber of this machine.  I thought it would only do justice it I to take on the task of making it look beautiful and fully functional again.

Things that were done in the last two years:

1. Auger housing completely stripped down to bare metal.  Primed and painted in black gloss.
   
2. Metal auger repainted also in black gloss
   
3. New set of OEM rubber paddles and augers
4. New OEM drive belt
5. New scraper bar
   
6. Replaced missing or rusted screws and various hardware
7. Repainted red plastic top cover and side belt cover with Krylon Fusion red paint
   

Things to be competed shortly, parts on order:

1. Replace wheels, washer, and cotter pin
2. Replace springs on the chute ratchet
3. Replace chute collar
4. Affix new Honda and warning/caution labels

That should pretty much covers it to bring it to full showroom condition and operational specs.  Total costs of parts ~ $200, $30 in paint supplies, and several nights of work. 

And now here are a few pictures. 

You're doing a great job - looks like it's ready for the showroom floor!

Aa335 - thanks for posting! You're doing an awesome job on that unit. That machine is an awesome unit - one of the best single stages made. Keep up the good work there and keep us posted.

Sweet! That is nice. I saw one of those on craigslist just after I bought the Toro, made be rethink for a second........

Looks great. What primer did you end up using under that appliance enamel?  I'm hoping for some warm weather to finish painting an impeller that was wire brushed.

I used Rustoleum clean metal primer. 

The appliance paint label says primer is not recommended, but I primed it anyways, because I want some rust protection under the paint.

The appliance paint may stick better without the primer though.

Is this a floor model just for showroom sakes or will it be brave enough to venture outside

Great Job !

She's a beauty but not afraid to play dirty.  It will see plenty of action, no garage queen here.  :)

I like to run them hard and put away wet. 

It's a tough snowblower, should handle hard work just fine.

I know it's kind of crazy, but been thinking about removing the GX160 and transplanting a GX200.  Direct bolt-in to the frame, a little bit of work matching up output shafts to pulley though.   

There are GX200 clones available for cheap.  Maybe I'll put the GX200 on a second 621 donor frame.  I hate to butcher up this one though.

I'm also thinking about picking up a Honda HS35 for a restoration project.  She's really old and replacement parts are rare and really expensive.  I mean really expensive!  The HS35 is really well built and makes every new single stage snowblower look like toys.       Just the chute crank alone looks tougher than half of the snow equipment at Home Depot.

So many things to do, so little time. 

kellyinkc wrote:
You got a very capable Toro 221Q, I wouldn't have second guess that purchase.  I would take a second or two thinking about having both the 621 and the 221Q though.  :)

I read the favorable reviews for this "appliance paint" on the amazon web site. But the paint says it is for inside use only.

Should that be a concern with a snowblower application?

http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-7887830-Appliance-12-Ounce-Stainless/dp/B0009XB3JU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

"Rust-Oleum Specialty Appliance Epoxy is an ultra-hard, moisture resistance enamel that is specifically formulated for indoor
 metal surfaces. It provides a smooth, washable surface for refinishing the exterior of appliances such as refrigerators,
dishwashers, laundry machines, and other indoor metal applications (cabinets, tables).
Do not use on objects exposed to heat (stovetops, oven interiors, etc) "

Underdog wrote:
I read the label and check the recommendation before using this paint.  It has the properties that I was looking for, "ultra-hard and moisture resistance".  It is hard, smooth, and slippery, perfect for a snowblower bucket.  There wasn't anything else I could find that was reasonable in price and available in a rattle can.  So I took a chance and used it against the recommendation. 

Reading between the lines, I'm interpreting that the paint was not formulated for thermal expansion of the substrate at elevated temperatures (ie chipping and cracks) and/or resistance against breakdown from the sun's UV radiation being stored outside.  Or that it has not been thoroughly tested for outdoor applications.  Neither of these conditions are applicable to my snowblower.  Operating / storage temperatures are 0-100 Fahrenheit with minimal and non-continuous UV exposure.

I will report back how the paint holds up after several years. 

Use it at your own risk, YMMV.  The worse it could happen is that chips and cracks may develop.  You have to strip it down and repaint it.  But it's no worse than any other paint that is on there or rusting exposed metal.

aa335 wrote:

I have been contemplating the GX200 transplant on this machine as well. I put a clone GX200 on a Honda HS520 and I was quite impressed with the end result.  So are there differences in the output shafts (GX160 vs. GX200) that would come into play?

aa335 wrote:

I would agree that the HS35 is a beautiful piece of engineering (sans clutch).  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGUq5huKGiE

Underdog wrote:
The GX200 is basically a GX160 engine block with longer stroke.  All the engine mount holes are the same.

The GX160 engine that is in the snowblower has a different shaft than a GX160 / GX200 that you buy off the shelf.  Can't remember the detail now.

Nice overhaul!  Beautiful!    It's a shame Honda (and many) are offering lesser, more economical engines and parts in their present snowblowers.

If Honda offered the HS621 motor in their HS520 model  - I'd buy it in a second.

Underdog wrote:
The HS35 was Honda's first foray into the US market and it eclipses all single stage snowblower, IMO.  The majority of that beautiful engineering is hidden under the plastic top cover that most people will never see.  The engine mount, wheel mounts, handle mounts, and auger housing is one welded piece.  It is more of an automobile unibody  / space frame than a snowblower.

Check out this diagram and you'll see what I mean.  See item #4.

Auger housing.

It has control knobs on the console that is more fitting on an automobile than a snowblower.

Here is a longer video showing how well it handles the heavy stuff.  It doesn't throw very far, but the throughput and the pace at which it moves is quite impressive for a 3.5 hp engine.

HS35 Video

Hard to believe they could engineer this.  I never really looked that closely at the "chasis". I have heard that there is a clutch
that eventually goes on this machine and that this part is impossible to find. These blowers show up on CL
frequently for $70 to $80 in various condition.  Given their age, most are in pretty sad shape. 

U boys got me hungry for mooor power. 24" footprint with a GX270 doable ?

Underdog - was you mod done in a fashion with the cover back on ?
That's the only nuisance I see when doing mods like this....is keeping it looking *OEM*....

chefwong wrote:

The extra power in a small footprint is a nice balance. Any more and I think the frame would start to flex too much.
That and the fact that a single stage is supposed to be light and easy to push and pull around.  Which "24 inch footprint"
machine were you contemplating?
I was never successful in keeping the OEM "look."  I needed an extention for the exhaust/muffler
but I just resigned myself to the fact that I was not going to ever be able to resell it. Because of the narrower
width it will easily keep up with anything (as long as it is not frozen ice).  I liked the power/width radio of the
HS-80 over the HS-928, the 4" smaller bucket was better for that hp (in my opinion).  aa335's 621 is a
much more elegant design.  There are side by side comparisons of three single stage machines (including toro) 
somewhere on the net and the 621 wins hands down in heavy snow. 

My interest was peaked so I called Rust-Oleum just to see what their take was on the different finishing options.
They said not to use "rust metal primer" unless everything is rusty. If there is bare metal then the fish oil (I made up that term)
will not have a porous base to absorb into. This would mean that over time the oils would work their way toward the top coat
and it would start to peel. The tech also said that the "professional" spray cans were "basically the same" as the regular xo-rust
paint but packaged differently with more paint in the can and a more eyecatching display. That surprised me because
I thought the paint went on better.   The tech went on to say that people have good results with all sorts
of applications that the manufacturer never intended. After I hung up I did wonder if I would get the same answer if I called back
and got another tech. I called back anyway and asked about the etching primer. They said there was really no advantage to this
primer over the "clean metal" primer if the surface was clean and free of oils. The "clean metal primer" is available around these parts in
white only. This is a difficult color to use as a base for black paint. The tech said they market a "metal primer" with the
rest of the professional line that comes in a darker tan color but that paint is a little harder to find (although I thought I saw it in Home Depot.
Finally the last  primer I asked about was the "rust reformer" spray (not to be confused with the liquid junk they sell in a botttle).
I have used this stuff on the bare metal on the inside of snowblower chutes and it seems to take a lot of abuse.
But the tech said that it needs a rusty base to have good adhesion. Mine on clean metal  has held solid for a year and I like the result of the finish coat on it. 
I would just take all of this as one more opinion. We seem to have a lot of those when it comes to painting.  And I'm sure there are
that could'nt afford much less find. If someone gets a different story on these paints let us know. 

 

Nice work, aa!  Now to get off my butt and finish mine, some real snow will be here soon!

I've yet to dig real close but if I recall, while the blue engines were a great bang for the buck, seems to have plenty of power, the design/layout of things were never a exact copy/clone of their GX equivalent.
Nice Mod Underdog...not sure if I could pull that off by doing the cover. It would make me cringe everytime I saw it but that's more because I prefer things stealth....

Re: the paint, AFAIK, the rustoleum pro line has more solids in it...
And yes, the red rust paint requires much more rusty paint in order for it to work well.
You can literally feel the difference if you pick up a rust rust pro gallon can versus a black can. I'v
It's almost 2X  heavier...

I've never inquired about the spray cans, bearing I'm not sure how the forumlation is due to the fact it's a spray can and needs to atomize...
I just painted all my wrought iron work this spring and in my research, depending on application......the pro line was the most durable (in the color I needed - gloss black) which had self priming properties.

I plan to spray the exterior with the bucket thinned trough the HLVP gun, but I'm leaning on doing 3  brush coat on the exterior. If done right, when brushing, it looks pretty smooth with minimal wetand to flatten it to perfection.

chefwong wrote:

I could find gallons of the "professional" line rust-oleum but I could only find quarts of the standard "rust stops" paint. 
I don't think they sell the regular "rust stops" paint in gallons around here. I would have to stack 4 quarts of one on top
of each other to compare the weight and I have never done that. The labels on both paints recommend a primer
for maximum adhesion.  Like you, I would like to try thinning them and using them in a sprayer one day.  

As for the clones, I set my honda GX next to the clone and could not find any substantial difference. Maybe a slightly
different linkage on the carb but all the bolts lined uper perfectly.   In the case of the HS520 retrofit,the old engine was a smaller
GC engine with a overhead cam  (completely different layout) so I was not expecting any fit at all. I think in the HS621
would would be a perfect fit. But I have never tried it (yet). Its hard to  find a HS621 that needs a new motor, those GX engines
last so long. And in the case of AA335's maybe forever? 

alty wrote:
It's inevitable, today's consumers are very price sensitive.  Manufacturers are very price sensitive too.  Honda does not expect to sell too many of the HS621 at $850-$900, and neither does Toro expect to keep selling Snow Commander at $900-$1000.  Both of these models are no longer available in the US market.  However, the HS621 is still available in Canada.

I've said it before and I still believe it.  The HS520 was created to be price competitive with the Toro 3650 (good performer by the way).  The overall performance of the HS520 was improved over the HS621 in most cases.  More efficient drive belt, auger design, and bucket housing.

However, it was not as well built, a little skittish on packed snow, and lacks the grunt in heavy slushy snow.  The HS520 is long in the tooth.  It does need a redesign to keep up with the newer Toro 221 and 421.

Bill_H wrote:
You have a bigger project than mine.  My snowblower was in great mechanical condition (considering its age) so I just decided to hurry up to finish so it can see some snow action this year.  The big boy HS1132 also itching for some action too, bring on the 18+" of snow.

Good luck on getting it done before some serious snow comes down.

chefwong wrote:
Hehehe.  Underdog was the one that got me thinking about dropping in a more powerful engine when I had the HS520 two years ago.  However, I abandoned the idea because I couldn't see how a GX200 engine was can be stealthy or remotely OEM on a HS520, unless I take up laying fiberglass and custom fabricating my own cover. 

Now the Toro 421 would be a good candidate for a GX200.  Just an idea that was brewing lately.  There's a lot of room in that bloated cover and the chassis was designed by Toro to accommodate both a 2-stroke and 4-stroke engine.  Maybe a GX270 might fit under there, but it's going to be heavy. 

I guess i'll have a better idea when i remove the cover on the 621....
I was thinking I remove the GX200 for my 724, shoehorn than on the 621 and then shoehorn a GX270 into the 724 which would make it perfect (the compactness I want with the extra uumph)...

I was hoping there was a proven mod that someone has done already and still maintained the OEM of things....

chefwong wrote:
I think you'll be the first to transplant a GX270 on a HS724 chassis.  That chassis is quite compact, a tight squeeze to fit in between the handlebars.

I'm curious to see how it goes, hopefully the gearbox can handle the extra power and not breaking shear bolts left and right.  :)

Underdog wrote:
I think those motors lasts forever.  You're more likely to find GX160 in need of a new chassis and everything else around it.

I didn't do anything to the engine.  It ran fine.  Carb bowl was clean, float looks great, fuel line in good shape.  There are some outside rust on the muffler.  Maybe I'll check if it needs valve adjustments.

I have never done a valve adjustment on any these small honda motors.  I read the instructions on how to do it but I was never sure that
it really needed to be done. Has anyone done this?

I did a valve adjustment on my B&S Intek engine just a few days ago.  They weren't too far from spec but out nonetheless.  Not that big of a deal but needs to be done right.  Turn the engine slowly until the piston is just past TDC and both valves are in the up position for the compression stroke.  Take the appropriate feeler gauge and take a reading. Hold the set screw tightly and loosen lock nut.  Adjust the set set screw to manual specification.  Adjust toward the loose end of the range.  "Tappy valves are happy valves."  The hardest part is keeping the set screw in the correct position while tightening up the lock nut.  It takes a few attempts to get it right.  Take a reading after every setting to make sure it's right.  Do adjustments with cold engine.

Great thread and good job with that Honda. I just picked one of these up today and in no small part due to what I've been reading on this forum and others like it. I paid $230 CND for it. Starts on the first pull, minor rust (to be expected) and otherwise looks fine. One thing that is wrong with it however is that the choke gets stuck when you pull it out and will not go back without getting under the motor and manually pushing the lever(?). Now, I'm no mechanic and not all that mechanically inclined but I like to tinker and I'm no fool so I ask you folks on this forum what steps I should go through in getting this thing ready for the winter. I purchased it for my parents so I want it running trouble free for them. Another thing I noticed was that it is pretty loud! Now, this might just be normal but it's a four stroke and I was expecting it to run a little quieter I guess. I suppose what I'm asking is what are the typical things to check on a used snowblower?
Thanks all.

Steve

smp22 wrote: Congradulations on your new HS621.  This is a nice blower.  Mine is not very loud. That said, I guess loud is a relative term. Post some photos when you get a chance and don't let the rust get ahold of that impeller assembly.

Seems like you got a good deal for C$230 for a 621 with some light rust.

If the engine sounds loud, check the muffler for internal rust.  The baffles may have rusted away.  You may need to buy a new muffler or find a used part.  I'm not sure how comfortable taking things apart, but refer to this parts diagram to make it easier.  Take pictures as you go along so you can review them when you you put things back together.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Snow%20Blower/0/HS621%20A-A%20SNOW%20BLOWER%2C%20JPN%2C%20VIN%23%20SZAN-1000001%20TO%20SZAN-1038238/FRONT%20COVER/parts.html

I would start with checking the auger drive belt for tension.  Take off the belt cover on the left side with a 10mm socket.  Adjust the belt tension if it seems loose.  You want to adjust so the belt doesn't slip on the pulley, but not too tight.  If its stretched and you run out of adjustments, replace with a new belt.  There is a metal plate with a whole bunch of holes on it.   Place your bail cable and the tension spring closer together to get more tension.  Be careful and wear gloves to protect your hands while working on this part.  Also, wear eye protection, those springs can fly and will hurt.

The next item to check is the rubber auger and paddle blades.    If it looks worn and leave large gap between the rubber and the housing, or frayed, replace them with OEM parts.  You can get aftermarket ones for 1/3 or 1/2 price of OEM, but it may not lasts as long.

Next, check the plastic scraper bar.  There should be some material to cover the metal bar and should be the same thickness across the front.  Replace if it looks thin or you see any metal from the bucket showing.  You should always replace the scraper bar when you get new rubber paddles.  Otherwise, you will wear out your new rubber real fast.

Next move on the chute.  The left and right movement should be consistent and snaps into detents, no sticking at either extreme.  It it is, then there something between the collar and base.  You can take the chute off and clean the interface.  Put a thin layer of grease to make it rotate smoothly.  Don't use too much because the grease will attract sand and turn into "sandpaper"

Next check the chute deflector.  It should move up and down consistently, again no sticking.  There should be some drag friction on it as you move up and down.  There should be plastic washers on the slot that provides friction.  Check that these washer have at least 1/16" thickness.  If they are too thin, replace them.  Tighten the bolts to get a enough friction to hold the chute deflector in position when the snow hits it , but not too much that it's difficult for the operator to move.  Tighten the nut in small increment equally on both sides until it feels "right".  Make sure the nut is a Nyloc type so it doesn't vibrate off.

Next is to warm up the engine and drain the oil.  Tip back and let the snowblower rest on the rear bar.  It will stay in that position to help the oil drain out of the engine.  Put in 5W-30 oil or synthetic if you wish.

I would go over all the fasteners on the handles and plastic covers to make sure they are all there and tightened.  If it's loose, it will spin it self off and fall on the snow the next time you go out.

You guys are amazing! Thanks for the very detailed reply. I will be going over the blower this coming weekend and taking pictures of anything suspicious and posting them here. One thing the seller told me was that a new scraper bar was installed last year. The paddles don't look rusty but I couldn't really tell how worn they were? The other unit I looked at (granted only pictures) had rust on the auger and paddles, this one doesn't.

This manual might help if you want to be technical. 

http://www.snowblowerguide.com/manuals/Honda%20HS621.pdf

Back again and I really don't mean to be hijacking this thread so if I should start a separate one please let me know.

I spent some more time with the HS621 that I bought for my folks today. Damn thing wouldn't start, go figure. We had set it up against the garage wall when I dropped it off over there so it was sitting on the scoop(?) and I forgot the fuel on! I don't know if this matters or not, but I remembered and phoned my folks a few days later and asked them to make sure the fuel is off so they turned it off. Anyhow, it ran ok when I bought it off the guy with the exception that the choke sticks in the on position. I think the mechanism that returns it is just shot so you have to go under and manually push the lever on the bottom of the carb. So, long story short, I got it to run but it won't stay running without the choke. When I try to dial down the choke it surges. I'm thinking about rebuilding the carb following this video:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_eTqL0C3gQ

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLMeYIHuoIQ&feature=related

Anything I should worry about when attempting this? I'll be ordering the carb kit either from Honda locally or somewhere online.
I bothered to change the oil today and it was black as night, so this thing doesn't look like anyone really took care of it. It runs though so I figure it will run well once it's tuned up. I have little to no experience though so any input from you folks is much appreciated.

Thanks
Steve