Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Thinking about doing a little side-work and I'm wondering if anyone has any complaints about the Ariens ATC concept?  It kind of freaks me out to think about NOT having both wheels fully engaged.  I think I would prefer having the levers to disengage a wheel, but this is contrary to what their PR is advocating.

I just don't quite get the concept.  Is it 1WD unless it slips?  or is it 2WD unless one is "blocked?"

I know that a lot of areas I'd be doing were on a bit of a grade.

Also, The wheels of today are a lot "grippier" than those of old.  Are chains really necessary?

JohnWI wrote:

I got a Toro instead of the Ariens (so happy I did) anyway the trigger steering is brilliant. The autolock diff doesn't really work all that well from what I saw when I demo'ed it. I want to steer it not muscle it around the driveway. If you have a steep grade you might want tracks instead of wheels but wheels work fine for me and I have a 5% grade at the top and have to do that sideways because of where I throw the snow. The levers work better. I think Ariens only has them on one side so you can only turn left ala NASCAR. Test out the autolock at teh dealer and see if you like it. My wife couldn't turn it at all no matter how much the dealer insisted about how easy it was to turn.

I agree and like the dual triggers on the Toro's but I just don't get the feeling that the unit is built quite as strong as the $1500+ Simplicities or Ariens.

I'm guessing they all will throw snow within a few feet of one another so I'm leaning toward a unit that is easier to control for at least a few hours.

JohnWI wrote:

My Toro 1028 cost me around $1,800 and it's built pretty damn well. Also Toro's have less problems with their gearboxes than some other brands. But with snowblowers you buy what you like. Mine does a huge driveway and a HUGE EOD all in 1.5 hours and the snow doesn't stick to the plastic chute which is easy to use. I guess that most peopel equate weight with durability. I would tend to agree with that with a few exceptions. Just having thicker steel doesn't make it better. Cast Iron gear boxes sure sound good and better than aluminum. But we used to manufacture parts from cast iron. We had a place make the actual molds and process the raw stuff for us. Cast iron can crack same as aluminum. Castings ares ok but they market it as tho it were something "all new". It's very old technology and most of the aluminum parts are cast as well.

Try this take a 100% aluminum pan and a cast iron pan and put an ice cube it each one. The aluminum will melt the ice significantly faster. I would think as far as throwing snow goes after you spend real money for a unit it will compare pretty well to others in it's price class. I for one do not want to muscle the machine around for 2 hours and my wife can't.

We are planning on doing a series of videos this year that shows throwing distances of our Toro 1028 in various types of snow and depths. Whatever you do end up buying make sure you test it out and really like it as you will have it for a long long time.

My Ariens Platinum 24 with the Autolok turns just fine...I don't have to muscle it around at all...however I am not a small guy and my wife will never be doing the driveway.  That being said, I think the Toro's dual trigger steering concept is probably one of the nicest out there, being able to consciously put the power where you want it when you want it.  The only drawbacks are the 2 extra cables\handles that you must operate whenever you want to turn and the small amount of extra maintenance that these will eventually require. 

l have an old canadiana (25 years old) with a full posi differntial "same as in your pick up truck" "autolock" and it is a 10 hp 32" machine and l can turn that machine with ease. know the differance l think is with the "power steering" style in which u manualy engage/disengage the wheels is that when u disengage one wheel the blower uses the foward motion to turn the blower instead of the operator havin to manualy "muscle it" to turn it. personally l think both systems work very well, but l would perferr the "autolock" system just for it simplicty and its less compliacted to use, my machine requires next to nothing to turn it, l would even go as far as saying u could turn it with one finger..

2 Stage Snowblowers have NO GEARBOX !  What all except the Honda have, is a "Friction Wheel" drive, a very simple mechanism that wears and needs its friction wheel rubber (like a tire on a car) replaced and its 'Drive Plate (the round disc the friction wheel connects to when you squeeze the drive handle).  The diameter of that Drive plate, and the width of the friction wheel rubber are the specs that make one brand vary, for better or for worse, from another brand of snowblower.  The companies NEVER allow you to see that specification.

Here is how your snowblower drive works.  The 'friction wheel is riding and able to slide across the drive axle that is connected directly to the wheels or the tracks.  When you squeeze the handle a round and spinning flat, probably aluminum, disc that is connected to the engine with a V-belt is forced into that rubber tired friction wheel causing the machine to move forward or reverse.  The friction wheel is able to slide across its axle and is held in any given place along that axle by the 'speed control lever'  the notches on that speed control hold the 'Friction wheel' nearest the center of the spinning drive plate for low gear, and move it out to the edge of the plate for high speed (less power).  Reverse simply moves the friction wheel to the opposite side of the spinning drive plate, reversing the rotation and providing the reverse positions.  If the V belt turning the drive plate slips you don't move.  If the rubber tire on the friction wheel is worn, or glazed, or cracked, you also don't move.  If the drive plate is worn smooth and the rubber friction wheel surface can't grip it, again you don't move.

If you want a hydraulic actual transmission, you have to come up with the heavy price of a Honda Snowblower, all the others work exactly as I just described.  Now you know why they work great when New, but that friction wheel does not stay in New condition for long, especially if the snow is heavy and the pushing is hard.

Good info New Yorker.

I've owned two Craftsman snow throwers over a twenty year period.  Both had seen very hard service in Canadian winter conditions.  I never once experienced a drive issue with either machines.  No slipping ever occurred and I didn't have to adjust/repair them even once.  If properly maintained they will last a long time.  The beauty of the disk drive system is it's simplicity and functionality. 

By the way, both machines were suffering from cracking of welds, parts falling off and general chassis deterioration.  The engine, propulsion and snow throwing systems were all working fine if the machine could have been kept together.   

New_Yorker wrote:

Not to start an argument but my canadiana HAS A GEARBOX! not maybe 100%, its works pretty much the exact same way as a soild axel...so picture it this way theres TWO chians one go from "friction disk shaft " to a JACKSHAFT then the other chain goes from "jackshaft to the main drive axel"  in which the MAIN DRIVE AXEL HAS A GEARBOX ATTACHED TO IT which is posi, and it works exactly the same as in your pick up truck gearbox. l will try and get some pics so u can see it then it will be easier to understand.

now l agree that 95% of blowers are the set up u described, and l havent see one of the new machines with the  "AUTO TRACTION CONTROL" system but l would guess its a simler system , unlike the "EASY TURN" style which u half to MANAUL engage / disengagement of the drive wheel.

Canadian Winters would probably be significantly easier than what places like southern New England and Long Island get.  We almost never get the light powder you see in a snow storm.  We get wet sleet, even when it does snow light powder, the storm will often begin as sleet or freezing rain or end that way.  This combines with salted roads plowed into our driveway means the snow the machine must move itself into is denser, far heavier, and tends to clog the machine.  This so taxes the drive mechanisim that within a short time you end up having to 'push' the snowblower into the snow because the drive plate and friction wheel slip.  I never went longer than 2 years between swapping out the rubber on that friction wheel, and after 5 years the drive plate had to be roughed up with a sander, no easy task for a part not designed to be removed from the machine for regular service.  Now you know why I paid the buckaroos for a Honda with No Friction Wheel.

Sounds like your previous snowblowers were in severe service or you typically over drive the snowblower into piles.  I don't have any thing against or in favor of friction discs but I hope your new Honda hydrostatic transmission will able to endure the same conditions.  If the hydro trans go south, it will be expensive, compared to burned or worn out friction discs.

I too have Honda hydro trans and I'm careful of not abusing it.  This is my first hydro unit with little reliability experience so I err on side of caution.  Wet or dry snow, I let the auger does most of the work chewing snow rather than forcing the bucket in with the power of the hydro trans.  I'm confident it can take that kind of abuse, but using it more akin of a snowplow rather than a snowblower, I don't know for how long it will last. 

"Canadian Winters would probably be significantly easier than what places like southern New England and Long Island get."

Do you think?  I could have sworn that parts of Canada are a bit north of New England.    

I live on the north shore of Lake Superior.  We get a great deal of lake effects snow. It's December 1st and we've already got over 14" of snow and almost all of it fell heavy and wet.  It rained here all day yesterday.  If it had fallen as snow, we would have received another 10  to 12" of wet snow.   We'll get snow right into mid to late April.  Last year, we received 30" of heavy wet snow on April 1st. 

Believe me, where I live, you're above statement couldn't be more inaccurate.  Machines in this neck of the woods see demanding service. 

Proper use and maintenance of the machine will go a long way toward keeping it functional.   I do my own maintenance and do frequent inspections/adjustments.  Neighbours who aren't as vigilant are packing their snow throwers into the back of their pick ups and hauling them in for service every two or three years. 

There's nothing wrong with disk drive systems.   They're simple, reliable and inexpensive to repair if and when necessary. 

aa335 wrote:
Sorry but 'overdriving' is impossible.  The machine was never out of its lowest speed position, and even that was unable to push the auger into the snow pile without me pushing it as well.  The Friction wheel rubber slipped, either because it was worn or the drive plate was worn smooth.  That is why I got rid of the machine and bought the Honda.  I'll have to use my strength to turn the Honda, the old Craftsman-MTD had steering triggers, but that is far easier than providing the forward movement of the machine.  If I bought a 'Friction Wheel' machine I'd never buy one with tracks again.  the Tires have a chance of slipping when they can't move forward, the track machine simply makes the friction wheel slip.   The Town I live in and a number of others in the area use the Honda's for sidewalk clearing, they've held up well, and municipal workers are never easy on the machine, or careful about how they use them.   When they used the friction wheel machines they bought either John Deere or Ariens machines, but they don't anymore.  In fact the Town had a new HS 1132 TAS on order with the same Honda dealer I bought mine from.

You can overdrive even in first gear, especially when going into EOD piles.  This happens when the wheel speed is faster than the auger processing the snow.  If the wheel or tracks slips on the snow, this is less stressful on the drivetrain than friction disc slipping.