Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Preface: I've have has a HS520. Due to space contraints, etc - I'm not looking at 2 stage. Single stage for the most part is a perfect fit just short of....living on the right side and the plows only plow to the right so I cam constantly getting plowed in... Throw is fine already on the HS520. I was only curios does the 421/221 or even any current models on the market may have a bit more bite on the EOD/overnight plowed snow...

The toro units with the 2 cycle R*Tek easily have the most power.

I'm not suggesting that it is THE most powerful single stage out there, but I must say that I was surprised to see that the Troy-Bilt Squall 2100 (21" wide 10" high intake) single stage sports a 208cc engine.  That is the same engine that they use on their 26" dual stage machines!  I'm sure there are other MTD configurations of this same setup.  A co-worker of mine purchased this unit for $399 at the blue big-box store a couple weeks ago and I must admit, I'm anxious to see what kind of performance he gets out of that setup.  I'm sure there are better machines out there like the Toros, but I thought that this seemed to be a fairly high engine-to-bucket ratio.

Yeah,  I'm too is interested to see how these new Briggs OHV 4 stroke engines do on single stage snowblowers.

chefwong wrote:
I think how well the single snowblower bite into EOD depends on how stiff the rubber paddles as much as the horsepower.  Your current HS520 has a stiff center paddle but it is a little down on power, IMHO.  It throws snows well as long as you don't over feed it and slow down the auger too much.

There's really no magic to EOD.  You need stiff metal augers moving at slower rotations of the 2 stage snowblower to break apart that dense snow.  Open helical augers are good at this without clogging.  Rubber paddles can only do so much.  You can have a lot of hp on a single stage but that thing will just bounce and dance around violently.  Been there, done it.  Best thing to do is to soften up the snow with a shovel, or pony up the cash for a 24" to 26" 2-stage with the largest engine available for that class, and the most aggressive serrated auger.

I don't want to disappoint you, but single stage are good on many aspects but EOD with packed snow or higher than the bucket is always a challenge.  The best you can do is keep ahead of the game by going out snowblowing more often while the snow is fresh and uncompacted.

I hear ya....I was looking/considering the 2 stage due to EOD but the issue is space constaints. If it was not for that, i would have gone 2 stage in a heartbeat.

chefwong wrote:
Come to think of it, Toro attempted to tap into this market with the Snow Commander a few years ago, designing and producing a bad a** single stage snowblower.  You should see their rubber auger.  Impressive beefy hefty frame.  It was costly, expensive, and lost the maneuverability of a single stage.  It's hard to sell a $900 single stage 125 pound snowblower.

Superbuick can tell you about it.  He has actual hands on experience with it late last winter.

AA - read you past threads. Can't seem to figure out based on date but do you feel the *newer - later revisions* of the 520AS has comparable *uumph* compared to the 610... The current routine is to keep ontop whenever the plow comes around and then follow up right him as oftentimes, what get's plowed is the hardened snow or between that and the liquified stuff that just turns into Ice Bricks if you don't deal with it ....and overnight with no activity.

The Honda HS520 does not compare to the Honda HS621 or the Toro 221 at all in my book.  Both the 621 and the 221 have considerable power advantages over the 520, which uses a low-end, honda in name only GC series 4 stroke.  The 221's 2 cycle is 141ccs and known within the commercial lawn mowing industry to be the most powerful walk behind mower engine made (known as the lawn boy duraforce in those circles) and the HS621 uses a commercial grade true honda GX series motor.

I find the impeller design to be a little better on the Toro as well, but I wouldn't turn down a Honda HS621 were one to come my way.

I had a Toro Snow Commander last year (which also uses the 141cc R*Tek 2 stroke) and while it had plenty of power and was big, I found it a bit awkward to use when compared to the 221.  It didn't seem to offer any advantage other than 2 inches more width (who cares) and if anything was slightly less powerful-seeming than the 221 because it had to turn an extra paddle (3 as opposed to 2 on the 221).

The briggs model single stage (seems to be everyone other than toro and honda have bought and badge engineered this model for 2010/2011) looks promising, especially in the auger design, but I can't see that motor being more powerful than the R*Tek, especially when the 8.75 "gross torque" OHV briggs mower engines can't hold a candle to the Duraforce (I would know, I have both).

As far as the squall, no amount of power will help that thing until it gets a better auger design.  The auger like it has is inefficient and prone to clogging - in fact that design is primarily responsible for single stage snowblowers getting a bad name.

I had an MTD single stage with an auger that looks the same as the Squall 2100 I saw some pictures of and that thing clogged constantly.

On the other hand, it was free and was better than shoveling.

When I switched to my 1985 Toro 3521 2 stage blower last year the difference was like night and day.  I had 1 clog all year and that was due to
a loose auger belt.  In fact it was loose enough that it clogged because the impeller completely stopped.

Goes to show that there's more to snowblower performance than just a big motor.

Chefwong,

I assuming you're asking about how the current HS520 compares to the older HS621.  I had both at one time so I can tell you my observations.  The newer HS520 is lighter and more nimble, too nose heavy for my taste, just a little forward tip and the wheels easily comes off the ground.  Seems like all the weight is on the paddles.  I don't like this because the snowblower wander and bounce around a lot when the rear wheels are not on the ground.  The HS520 does have more efficient flat belt for power transfer, lighter auger/paddle assembly, and throws snow further, not by a lot though, 5 feet or so. 

However, when dealing with wet heavy snow or slush, the HS621 is has more torque and the stiffer and flat center paddle will push that stuff out of the chute better than the HS520.  The HS520 will stall when pushed too hard, it's much harder to do that with the HS621.

In fact, I had my Honda HS621 run against the neighbor's Toro 221 in the thick heavy wet snow and he constantly ease up to let the rpm build back up, he constantly have to forward, stop, forward, stop.  I just push the HS621 steadily at about 1 inch per second and adjust the speed if the engine tone drops.   Pretty much like what this guy does:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_O6g_uHAA4&feature=related

Besides that test, the Toro 221 performs better than the HS621 in all other aspects. 

I will still keep my 10 year old HS621 forever though until I can buy a new one in the US.  I'm in the process of repainting it to make it look new again.

Thx all for the feedback...While the 2 stage is probably the Correct Machine given the *ultimate application* - plowing myself out after getting plowed in (they only plow to the right ). The only downside is footprint. The single stage I can store when the season is over. With a 2 stage, even a smaller monster engine 24-26" machine, it's too big of a machine for me to store at this time. That unfortunately is the compromise that I will suffer, and thus the single stage takes precendence.

No problems.  Remember we're here to help if you're itching to spend money.  :)

As far as hiding it from your wife, well, that's your problem.  :)

Heh. We all have moooooor power envy at times ;-)

aa335 wrote:

"New? No that's not new honey, we've had that for years."

FrankMA wrote:
"Sure looks shiny and clean"

"I just detailed and waxed it"

"It looks brand new"

"I changed the lightbulb in the garage"

"Why is it blue?  I thought you had a red one"

"I had it painted.  Do you like that blue paint?  I think it goes well with the white and black Yamaha sticker."

"It looks bigger, a lot bigger!"

"I just moved closer to your truck."

"It looks wider."

"I turned it a bit to the left."

"It now has tracks"

"You sure don't miss a thing.  It came with tracks, I just got around to putting it on.  Tracks are in vogue this year.  Wheels are so passe"

I've been hemming and hawing at this. Anything that blows the snow is sure better than shoveling... Now alot of Toro's 221 or 421 for the matter on Clist. I could snag a Honda 4 Cycle for around half the price if I ended up buying a BNIB 221QE. The SB is a short term item. Meaning, we do plan to move in around 2 years. Dare I ask, are the older Ariens units better in some ways than the current stash of Ariens. There are plenty of Ariens on CL......of all makes and models. Even saw this 30" monster Simplicity. If I had to look at 2 stages, I think the Toro Powerchute is pretty bada$$ though.. This is just a hypothetical question should I consider looking at a 2 stage ;-)

chefwong wrote: You should always consider looking at a 2-stage, it doesn't cost any money until you actually buy.      That's a fact and you can put that hypothesis to rest. 

I would recommend you look at the current 20-24" compact 2 stage snowblowers.  They are more effective for EOD piles than single stage.  A lot of it also depend on technique.  My neighbor with his single stage and  shovel is quite good at taking apart one foot piles.  If it's over 2 feet, I'm coming over to help him and another neighbor, with my 2 stage of course.  Do you have the option to make that arrangement with the neighbors?

I'm not sure how much you want to tackle on taking care of older models for the next two years.  You might be lucky and find a used one that is in perfect condition.  But buying new and selling it when you don't need it may be a smarter choice.  At least new, everything should be working and you have a manufacturer's warranty during that 2 year period.

Remember that convenience and peace of mind costs money.  Factor that in also.  There are dollars and cents but also the fuzzy factors too.

I'm sure any 2 stage will be considerably more effective when clearing the EOD. The local borg has a 22" Compact Machine and realistically, that machine is too big already for storage. So if I end up figuring out how to make room and fit a 2 stager, I'd probably just pull the gun on a 24-26" machine with at least 300+CC's on it. I don't have OCD OPE needs, but maybe it will turn out where I'll want a bigger and better machine...but I'd rather just get it right the 1st time around if I go the 2 stage route.

chefwong wrote:
The key word is bigger and better.    Don't you want something BIG and GUTSY that you can grow into?  Not something small and weakly that you will quickly outgrow?

Space constraints?    Not in my book.  For every problem, there's an opportunity.

Anyways, good luck with your shopping.

chefwong: Sounds like you really want a 2 stage but don't have a spot to store it - at least you think you don't.... Why not stash it under a good quality cover somewhere in your yard that's secluded or under a deck or stairway? Is this an option? What about a small shed? I picked up a nice 8' x 8' shed for my pool stuff for about $ 300.00. It's not the top of the line but it serves its purpose, looks decent and provides an adequate amount of dry storage. Just a thought...

Great suggestion FrankMA.  An shed gives you more room to acquire other pieces of OPE and an extra snowblower or two that the wife doesn't see.  :)

See, a problem just turned into opportunities.

The practical and sensible side of me just thought if you you can put up with your current status quo and make your snowblower upgrade decision when you move to a new house? A shed and a new snowblower now costs money that you can put towards better machine 2 years later. Just throwing it out there.

I ended up getting a HS520AS - or on my model, it's a 520KAS (I've always known it as AS for the electric start). It was $375 Brand New and around $20 additional in tolls, and another $20 in gas Seemed like a OK deal.... Plenty of the ~HS621~ but my issue was between the ages of the machine, the driving out to possibly buy them/inspect them with unknown variables (gas and tools a minimum of $20+) assuming throwing at least a minimum of $100 into it for new paddles & drive belt, it was hard to spend the money on a ~questionable~ used machine regardless if she started on the 1st pull.. I get the GC vs GX debate. I did see any 221's on CL There were plenty of 3650's and the asking price on average based on ~my region~ was $400-$500. Had I gone the Toro route, it would have been the 221QE. Their Power Chute on the large 2 stages seems SLICK as hell . If I went with 2 Stage, I would have easily had looked at either Ariens 26-30 Deluxe/Platinum Line or even a HS 928. Between that and a shed of any variant, it was not worth the extra money to spend on something that may not even be a good fit when we move.. I've got all the grease points lubed up, and sprayed down the chute, and interior of the Auger with weatherpruf. Just to keep things as in *sellable* condition as much as possible, I wrapped the bottom handlebar/lift handle that right with some electrical tape any may even go sofar as to put some closed cell pipe foam on it... The Toro's if I recall actually have small metal wrapped skid edges if you want to call it that, to at least keep both sides of the Auger Housings Off the ground. The Honda's are just a straight Edge... I MAY wrap the edges with Gaffers Tape. I Can't think of a better way if just keeping the bottom edges as ~clean~ as possible minimizing the inevitable scrape that will occur. I guess I could just leave as is, and then just sand/level and paint it black when I am ready to sell....

chefwong wrote:

$375.00 Brand New??? These are going for $ 700.00 - $ 750.00 brand new where I live. I just picked up a used HS520A in good condition for $ 250.00 about 1 1/2 months ago. If you got a brand new one for $ 375.00 you did real good.

$375 for a new HS520AS?  Must be a back of the truck special or Robin 'hood' relocation program.   Say it isn't so.

Just came back from Home Depot - $749   and they had 4 in stock.  Sounds like you got a great deal for the Honda.

It was actually listed on CL. I go out to meet the guy and it turns out the address he gave me was a *booth* in some megamall flea market. It was not BNIB but inspections show brand new (scraper and augers were new/untouched). The only thing that threw me off during inspection was that it was 520KAS - with a K in it. A quick google on my phone while I was there did show a KAS model # so it seemed legit.

Nice deal.  Did you ever wonder how he can sell you for that cheap?

The place of business was a large flea market setup with booths, indoors and outdoors. I assume these guys get ~deals~ from various sources.... There was a Yamaha track model on CL for cheap, but I believed it has some mechanical issues and it was on tracks... Same goes for HS50 or HS80's.... I think the OPE OCD has hit me, cause I find myself on CL looking for deals....on a 2 stager.

chefwong wrote:
I think you mis-diagnosed yourself, it's not OCD, but an addiction.  :)  Big difference.

You came to the right place. Happiness loves company. 

The HS928 is where its at.  Buy once, cry once.  Ancient Chinese proverb.

aa335 wrote:

If you really want to drive yourself crazy, do what I did (twice). Buy your snow blower during the warm weather months so you can agonize all spring, summer and fall waiting for snow. I bought my HS624WA at a yard sale in May of 2000 and had to wait about 6 months before I could use it. Just this past March, I bought my new to me HS928TA and have been waiting ever since to use my new toy. Talk about a glutton for punishment!

On the single stages, I could not fathom buying one used unless it was in great condition and $150 or less. That is just moreso the mechanics of them, and belt drive and paddles costs $$$, which bring the net costs to ??? at the end of day. For example, the honda manual states that the paddles should be replaced when it measures 5/8". Brand new, it measures 3/4" inch. Granted I have not had long term experience owning a single stage and have one prior (just not long term), I cannot benchmark the life you get out of these things. Part of it will depends on operator usage I suppose and technique... 2 Stages I am open to exploring used as the mechanics are them from the mait. standpoint is either going to be shearpins, oil and maybe a carb rebuilt/new skid shoes. So as long as mechanically and bodily *rust free, chip free* the 2 stages are good, I'm kewl with that.... What comes 1st. Should I start planning how much concrete blocks and bricks I will need ? Or what stones I should use instead of bricks ;-) Don't roll you eyes - if I have to have a shed, aesthetics counts .

There was a fellar that came in passing by a month ago, asking all sorts of question, creme de la creme blah blah, ended up with bottom of the barrel Lada de Ariens.  I hope we're not seeing second coming of that anytime soon.

Anyways, how long are you planning to stay at your current house again? 

"  For example, the honda manual states that the paddles should be replaced when it measures 5/8". Brand new, it measures 3/4" inch. "

Chefwong - you're talking me into the Toro instead of the Honda.  1/8 inch seems like a pretty small wear factor.

alty - the Toro is the better choice. Its not that the honda is bad, its just that the Toro is considerably better.

Don't know much on the Toro Single Stages. If I had to choose a Toro SS, it would be the 221QR. At $700 for it, I would rather spend 2fold and get a 2 stage.. A used great 2 stage can probably be had for 50% of new 221QR. Their pricing on replacement paddles is slightly less than the Honda's comparatively. When I considered a used HS621, I decided to flip through my manual and on my HS520 book, it stated 5/8" is the wear edge. So then I proceeded to measure against my brand new paddles, to at least know what a reference point would be and surprisingly it was 3/4". The asking price on single stage used I personally find is high.. At one point in my life, I bought a Toro 1800 for $50 and sold it back the following month for $150.. 2 Stages - ahh so many golden treasures. Simplicity, Honda, Plenty or Ariens 724/824 but I would rather have a Platinum or 30 Professional, etc etc. There are a good amount of Honda track units but nary a nil on the wheel units on my local searches. Granted, every region will price differently......

" Its not that the honda is bad, its just that the Toro is considerably better. "

Superbuick - you're probably right.  I'm guessing people tend toward the Honda for the 'engine' .  Then again - the performance is a product of the total sum

of its parts.  The engine is one of many - although a large one.  Toro's updated power propel / zip deflector / quick shoot control combination is a tough act

to follow.  Also, I've heard earlier how the engines outlast the other components anyway - more food for thought.

Temporary Shed Solution Solved... They make this motorbike shed that is similar to a tent with a hard base..... Pretty slick solution that collapses down flat. I have to get a better look at it but looks like a perfect interim fit. Holy @#$@!@ Was browsing Honda.ca and me wants a HS928TCD. If only there was a way of bringing this stateside without paying on customs...

Temporary Shed Solution Solved... They make this motorbike shed that is similar to a tent with a hard base..... Pretty slick solution that collapses down flat. I have to get a better look at it but looks like a perfect interim fit. Holy @#$@!@ Was browsing Honda.ca and me wants a HS928TCD. If only there was a way of bringing this stateside without paying on customs...

Don't go there.  Any mention of the H word, tracks, 928TCD, and Canada, is big bucks.

You're not planning to let that 928TCD sleep outside in unheated temporary shed, are you?  That's just not right!  Any self proclaimed OCD person would only park it inside a garage on a nice thick slab of concrete. 

Wow - from a single-stage to two-stage 28 inch with tracks!   you got the obsession err-I- mean interest 'big time'.

I'll put a engine heater block on her to keep her all warm and snuggly every night :-) And I'll knit her a quilt for extra comfort.

Don't forget to put on blue painter's tape so she won't get frost bite.

That ain't right.  You need a pole barn for all your toys.

Off to pick up some cedar....
I decided to make a cedar shed for the 2 units.

It gives me a chance to try out my Kapex 150 Saw that come in last month.
Dreading having to seal it though. I hate finishing wood. It' so tedious...

The cedar shed is very nice.  Smells good too.

Man, you have expensive taste in tools.  That Kapex is nice.   She's a beauty.  I'm looking for a saw too but couldn't get myself to spring for it when I could get a shed for that price. 

Where can you buy a Kapex 150?

Festool tools are price locked...they are all the same price anywhere you go.

My 1st Miter was a Makita LS1013. Loved that damm thing.
Sold that for a Bosch super gizmo 12' uber saw. Hated it.
Sold that and bought myself a used LS1013 just to ~hold me by~....

Kapex arrived about a month ago. It's unpacked but I have not had a chance to use it.
Demoed it. It's quite nice but at 2X the next decent saw. But I guess we can make the same comparisons to the red vs orange bucket.
Is it the tool or the operator ......

Most high end stuff is price locked and available through selected channel.  Quality brand that doesn't get eroded in value and reputation.  I'm fine with that.  If you want it, you get it.

There's only red and blue bucket in my eyes.  :)  I assume you've seen the blue ones, haven't you?

BTW, can't find any info on the 150, only 120. 

Whoops...it must be the 120. It's the only Kapex they carry stateside.

Over abroad, they make a 10 and a 12" if I recall...but don't quote me on that. I have not looked at the intl. site in awhile.

And NOPE, I have never seen a blue bucket before....

You got a Makita LS1013 to "hold you by"?   Hehehe, that would be my "hold on forever" saw for me. 

chefwong wrote:
I'm convinced that the blue bucket is better and nicer (read $$$) than the red bucket.  Too bad can't get it here in the US.  Even if we do, it will be the decaffeinated version.  Like no TCD in USA.

By the way, do you have recommendation for a saw?

I'd go Makita....10" . Unless you have a real need for a 12" saw, less deflectence with a 10" blade.
Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch just doesn't do it for me but saws like any tool is a personal preference.

If I had to blindly choose, any of the 10" Makita's I would not have any qualms with. They are very accurate and aside from the bells and whistles of some other saws, I've always liked their fence systems.

I've got an LS 1013, and it's a great saw.

The blue machines are REALLY nice. If I had bought "new", I definitely would have gone with the YS928SJ. No shear-pins to deal with,,, joy-stick chute control,,, 12v starter (battery),,,,quiet as can be,,,a real little bulldozer.

AA - Still jonesying for a 621. You should have never pointed out the GC vs GX....
I kinda like the fact it's got a metal cover as well, I know, silly things

Let's run down a shortlist of things...

- Rebuild/New Carb - $60
- Scraper, Paddles, Belt - $125
- Plug - $7

Minimum - $200 vested repairs into it..
I'd rather replace the carb then rebuild at the cost vs. time ratio....

Do you have new paddles. I am VERY curious what the OEM New length is on this....so I have a reference point.....
Thx

chefwong wrote:
I can relate to how you feel.  There's common blood among connoissure/collectors.   :)  The 621 is a fine piece of machine.  Just want to ground you with some reality though, the HS520 and Toro 221Q being newer and optimized, throw snow further in most instances, except slush. 

I have new paddles not installed yet.  What measurement would you like me to make? 

Northeast territory. We get the wet stuff....
More TOOOORQUE .

You may need to eyeball it, but how much rubber do you have from the edge of the auger paddle to the auger support (as if the paddles are mounted on).


----

I feel like I'm on a time constraint. I either Source a 621 before this winter or I'm keeping the 520. While the 520 may sell well used, it sells even better *brand new*....

chefwong wrote:
Ok, I'll overlay on the auger and make the measurement this evening.  I'll put on the metric eyeglasses, unless you prefer fractions, then I have to stop by the optometrist first. 

Most people don't know what a 621 is.  Only people in the know go looking for a used 621.  You can easily sell the 520AS at a higher price than you could pick up a used 621.  Although mint condition 621, hard to come by, is usually well kept and maintained by people who know the value of it and are usually priced high.  You get what you pay for.

Hold on to your 520AS until mid winter, you get even better price then.

The Banghead Smiley is missing on this forum ;-)
I would need 6 of those to start this response....

I have a boatload of cedar that I need to finish indoors to store these puppys.
Can't build it straight outdoors cause due to temps, and proper application of finish coats, I need to do all this indoors.
That is something more like a 2 weekend outdoor project easily done outdoors and now I have to piecemeal it.....grrrrr

I don't see a problem here.  I'm sure you can come up with new equipment to make the job faster and better.  :)

You have a Festool shop vac, don't you?

Yeah. The beauty with that and the Kapex in a indoor setup...is 90%+ of the dust is captured.
I don't have the exact percentage but it is HUGE...

BUT, FWIW, it's not now loud as thunder Shopvac.
I feel like I have to baby the Festool.

The bigger regular $50 shopvacs are lounder, and has more  ballz, and I would not hesitate using those as a wet vac....

But the Festool lineup is a ~system~....

While on the topic of tools, previously was using Makita drills, went over to Panasonic drills (sleeper brand like the HS621) but I'm back over to the Makita's.....
Impacts, Drills.  All very balance. Don't really ever need more than 14.4...

Snap On for the track bollts. That thing has some serious torque that no others can compare.

You should have never pointed out the Kapex 120.  What a saw.

Ok, I'm not going to visit Festool website, ever again.  I'm just going to put up with loud as a turbine Shop Vac.

Here's my comparisons.
I would never buy a Honda Snowblower at retail. It's not that important to me to pay the rate of that.
Used is another matter.

With that said, on the Festools, they are similar in price in that they are one of the most expensive lineups in their pedigree.
To a degree, there are alot of products out there at 50% less that will do 90% of the same job as the Festool.

What I like about their products (sanding and cutting) is that they are well balanced, feels great in the hand after long hours and they capture dust very efficiently and is very accurate.
Why cut 3 times when you can get the perfect cut the 1st time around on a miter saw

For drills, I go Makita or Panasonic..
Grinders - Metabo
etc, etc. The list goes on....

chefwong wrote:

You're breaking my heart.  What??? Tell me you have a cabinet saw! 

I wish.......but anything remote close to interior grader furniture, my cabinetmaker is the man to go to.

Just a portable Table Saw, Jigsaw or Worm Saw.....for sheet goods.
Nothing special. A couple of jigs to make things easier.

Ha. In another life, I would be working with power tools for a living ;-)

chefwong wrote:
Are these OEM or aftermarket paddles?  I bought aftermarket ones which costs less, I think they were half price of OEM, but they were very soft and did not last very long.  If you're ginger, the paddles might last a while.    The OEM ones are stiffer and seems to be better constructed.

chefwong wrote:
 
3/4" edge of rubber to edge of metal auger.  Total width or rubber is 2" exact.

Thx aa335. I actually had a weird hunch it would be 3/4".
Briefly browsing a couple of sites, while I did not compare part #'s, some sites listed the paddles the same for 520/621.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure how much wear is imposed with use just due to it being rubber...but the manual states that one should replace them when it is down to 5/8".

The parts I speced were OEM. If I am not familiar with a brand and the 3rd party alternatives, I generally stick with OEM.
At 50% less, sometimes you do have to learn the hard way by buying and comparing to know if it's worth the difference or not.

ie: Miele Vacuumn Bags in my opinion are better than the 3rd parties.
Reputable places where I buy spare misc parts for my cars (I'm the type that will replace even even a retaining holder) just because I like to keep things all new and fresh...
Anyhow, I order a sidemarker light that was 3rd party BUT listed as Just as OEM.  When I pulled the OEM unit out, and compared - the lens housing was the same manuf. as
the one I received. However, the Gasket Material if not the O Ring on the OEM was 2X as thick as the one I received.

chefwong wrote:
The part numbers should be different.  Honda changed the paddle design for the 520, they are not interchangeable.   The center paddle on the 621 is longer and will not fit the 520, and vica versa.

If you need more replacement parts to restore that 621 to full glory, here's a place to buy parts.  I don't know of any other place as comprehensive inventory.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Snow%20Blower/0/HS621%20A-A%20SNOW%20BLOWER%2C%20JPN%2C%20VIN%23%20SZAN-1000001%20TO%20SZAN-1038238/parts.html

Stick with OEM paddles.  I don't know who made the aftermarket one but it was not as robust.  My paddles are beginning to split at the middle of the two plies.

I have the Miele Aquarius and I know exactly what you mean.  After owning it for 2 plus year, I'm glad I didn't get "sucked" into the hype of Dyson vacs or any type of cyclonic bagless vacs.  The success of Dyson is clever marketing and distribution, like Bose, but cannot hold a candle to even mid fi audio..  I've also used paper filter bags and the always seems to blow out dust every time I change them.   Miele fabric bags are the best.  The dust and dirt keep gets tightly packed in the bag, but it doesn't clog and reduce the suction power.  If Miele makes snowblowers, I'd buy one too.

AA - Don't recall was it this thread or a another thread but I do recall you mentioning a paddle redesign.
There is reference to a paddle redesign on the 520 on this thread.....

Is there one for the 621 that you are aware of ?
I looked through all the parts on the the years for the 621 and the auger/paddle design all look the same.....

BTW, did you end up replacing your Auger Bearings on the 621.
That's the only part I need to break down to see if that will need be changed.

I considered the chute collar/springs/tension holders (the 3 springs) that lock the chute but it seems mighty fine.....and still have plenty of tension.
I would be replacing the throttle springs and such (anything that should have stretched in 10 years time)...

chefwong wrote:

Chefwong,

What's the benefit of replacing those stretched throttle springs?   I have the springs that are attached arms of the governor.

I thought there were a redesign for the 621 paddle because the parts diagram online shows a v-shaped paddle, but I've never seen one in pictures or brochures.  I doubt there is one.

Speaking paddles, the flat center paddle on the 621 is what makes it so aggressive on slush and EOD piles.  There is virtually no deflection when it hits hard stuff, as compared to the Toro 221 curved rotor.  However, because it is so wide, it does require more torque to turn.  The 520 has the V-shape, which requires less torque, and allows it to throw light to medium weight snow further.  However, put slush in front of the 621 and there is no contest.

I didn't replace any bearings.   These bearings don't see many hours of continuous duty, slow speed, and the load on them is minimal.  I inspected them and the seals looks intact and no signs of lubricant leak, it spins smooth with no slop, so I decided to reuse them.

I will replace the chute collar and those springs though.  I like it to have crisp action when I rotate the chute, like how it works on the HS520.

The elusive Toro Snow Commander is rated at 7hp. So I think this might be the most powerful single stage in terms of hp. 
.5 hp stronger than the 3650. Its also self propelled but I think the some of the smaller toros would provide more power per linear foot.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ZmkFeW28E 

Underdog wrote:
The power of the Snow Commander is negated by wider 24" auger, heavier frame, and possibly that third paddle.  It is very big and heavy, almost intimidating to use, literally.

Just a couple of cobwebs but I think I lucked out...
Other than the outer edges being a smigen bent inwards, it came with electric start (not that I would need it) and she wasn't a rustbucket to boot.
It's a fairly easy renewal on this.....and fresh parts are on backorder as they need to be ordered from Honda direct....


I'm tired of typing so here's some pics just to add some pics to the board......

How much did you get this for? 

Checking out your chassis S/N, it is actually older than mine.  That's in really good condition! 

A little bit more than what I had set my limit to, but I paid $300 for the unit.
Add another $225'ish in parts on order...

ahemm, cough cough, thanks or no thanks to someone who got me jonesying for a 621.
I swear, I promise, I'm done scouring craigslist and ebay for any more snowblowers this season.....I promise

You're welcome.  I'm just a catalyst to get things started.  You know who to ask if you want to spend money.  :)   If you're done for this season, there's always next season.  That should be spring.

What was the original asking price?

You got a decent deal for $300, not a steal.  Something in that condition around here, which is rare to find, would easily fetch $400.  Considering the age of your unit, I say it has been living a pampered life.  You did good!

How's that shed coming along?  Did you make extra room for new acquisitions?  Little 'red is just a small hobby, big 'blue is what's going to break the bank.  :)

Just looking at the pictures again more carefully.  Is that auger bent?

aa335 wrote:

That's what I was thinking, looks like it hit something pretty hard.

U know I did notice the pic as I was imported them off the camera card.
It is slightly bent it or is it by design ????

I looked at the welds, how it was on the shaft, etc afterwards.
It spins fine and there is a hairs breath from the rubber to the bucket when I spin it.
But nothing rubs and it seems fine...
It looks more pronounced in the pic but yes, one side is not perfectly 90 degrees.

AA - can you confirm if it is perfectly straight on both sides ?


Shed is delayed. I have not found the perfect finish for cedar.
I like the natural color of cedar but any clear sealer had no UV inhibitors so it will turn grey regardless....
To get it with UV inhibitors, I need to stain but eh.....I'm not a big fan on staining it .
I would paint it but it's so sacriligous to paint western cedar. While I think paint will be something I like on color
and overall how it blends.....the other half of me is like, NO, cedar should never be painted....

It's kinda like mixing wine and beer together.....

So little rust on this unit. Pretty amazing to find one in this condition.  Did you get any history from the previous owner? Looks like it was hardly used.

It was kinda weird...I go there to inspect it and I was like can I crank this up ...
He reaches for the extension cord and I was like, no, let's pull the cord.
He does like 6-10 ~wimpy pulls~ and I was like let me try it. Give it a ~good pull~ and it starts right up...

Then he goes on to tells me he has always used the electric start .

I obligly ask if he minds if I drain the oil outside his driveway ....I  brought my small oil vac.
He says sure, no problem and he actually did it for me on the spot.....by tipping the unit over and pouring the oil backwards out of the fill hole.
I asked is this how you normally do it....there is a drain bolt right below, and he told me this was how he has always changed the oil.

So the seller was not the most mechanical, but yes, I thought the condition was in really great shape.....

Except for what appears to be a bent auger, which I did not pick up on till I was looking at the pics.
Hopefully, someone with a 621 can chime in and confirm wheter one side is slight tweaked or fully straight....

That center part should be flat across both sides.  Looks like both sides were bent.

However, it should look like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-HS621-HS-621-Snowthrower-Snow-Thrower-Auger-NEW-/250611539091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a599c9c93

As long as the gap between the bucket and rubber is small, it should not affect the function.   Try spinning under engine power to see if auger vibrate and out of balance.

If it bothers you, return your new paddle set and consider buying that auger assembly on ebay, it comes with the new rubbers.  So essentially,  $160 for the metal auger.

My auger is bent too, slightly on one side.  I'd probably consider buying that auger assembly the next time I need new rubbers.  But it's so miniscule, I might just overlook it.

I do have ~issues~. Especially with any motor equipment.....I'll go to far as replace exterior moulding on my cars cause the sun has aged it and while trim products make them look good....it's just not as good as fresh. I think I may just spring for the augers but It's more like $200 extra when you factor in the shipping.

Grrrrr.....in the pitch of night and with the flashlight making sure the augers spun, and bearing that it looked so mint and rust free (just short of the marks on the bucket), I thought I made out pretty well - considering others in my area were asking $450 with questionable body conditions..

Buy another one, switch the augers, then resell it :)

chefwong wrote:
I know what you're saying.  Replacing that moulding would not work for me.  New molding would stand out looking so good, that the rest of the car looks crappy.  $200 dollars later on car detailing and I'm still not satisfied.  I'd go out and buy a whole new car, moulding and all.  .  Until the wife says, "NO, YOU'RE NOT.  IF you have been putting up with my imperfections the last several years, you can hold out on a new car just as long".  Hehehe, my wife didn't actually say that.  I'm just dramatizing.

Get the new auger and put everything else behind you.  You got lucky finding that 621 in such a nice condition.  I wouldn't go through the trouble of finding another unit to swap parts with, unless you have time and patience.

New Auger ordered.

Now can someone please help me explain Why-TF I have 3 snowblowers in my possession....

chefwong wrote:

You have snowblower OCD!  

chefwong wrote:
You are suffering from SAS

Snowblower Acquisition Syndrome

It comes in three's.  That's just the way it is.  Don't sell off anything or you'll start the cycle all over again.

chefwong wrote:
This is your original posting. Kind of funny looking at it now...LOL.

chefwong wrote:
Hah, top that. 

What's the first step to recovery?

The 1st step to recovery is to unload that 520 I have...

Not sure if it's the economy or just the seasons.
When I sold my 520 on CL years ago, I got a zillion responses within the hour.

So far, it's been a couple of days and not a single bite.
I may just have to put a Black Friday price on it to move...

Good call on the selling of the used auger Shyrp. That was not even on my radar and it would have gone into the metal recycle bin....

chefwong wrote:
Don't say I didn't warn you.  :)

The only buyers remorse I have is TCO of the 621....
Reminds me like the last time I had custom headlights being made....at the end of the day, I spent (let's just say it cost more than a HS1132)....

The winner is still the HS520AS. $375 + $40 in tolls and gas
The 621, at $300, a short trip but $425+  in parts later just to make this possibly 10+ year old vintage machine on par with the rest of shiny brand new single stagers out there on the market.

And then you have troublemakers on this forum start talking about a even older HS35 and it's got me saying, ooooh , what's that......

chefwong wrote:
Whaccha talkin about Willis???

Don't go there.  Stay away from craigslist.  That's a 20-30 year old model and restoration will leave you broke, not as bad as the last air-cooled Porsche 911.  I know someone who's holding off that project until the economy picks up.

Although if  you have time, patience and space, you can put together one from many donor parts units, or used parts from Ebay.    Did you say you're finishing up a shed?

Time for a powernap. Happy early Tday gents.

Not sure how many 621's ya'll have looked at in your lifetime but in my limited recent search, many were just rustbuckets or had quite some rust for my comfort.
Usual suspect area were the bucket, edges, the bolts that hold the split handlebars, etc. A GOOD telltale sign was the exhaust areas.
Even mild ones with rust in the buckets had quite a bit of rusty bolts & or rusty mufflers...Suprisingly, on the one I picked up, the only trace was the buckets.
It's quite dirty, dusty, leafy, cobwebby but rust free which is a ++++

Anyone happen to know what years the 621 was carried in the USA .
My serial I believe shows it was Revision A of the *electric start* models if I recall when looking at the parts database.

AA-the shed I've been hemming and hawing on deciding on a finish. Went ballz to the wallz. Ordered some great stainless hardware from a boating supply store, etc.....Just got to decide on a @$@$)(( finish.
I really would like paint but it would be like putting a JDM style exhaust on a german car.....

I guess I'll find out soon enough but as it stands, it's only a hairs breath between the center rubber and the bucket.
Does it rub on yours with your new paddles ? Quite a bit of the 621s I looked it had bare steel down where the flat center paddles were but the sides were not down to bare metal ?
I suppose the flat is overhung and sweeps the bucket down the middle clean. On the Ebay link, the centers appears to stick out further than the side paddles. However when I compare them to the HS621 refresh thread, yours seem flush.

You got one of the cleanest 621 I've ever seen, besides the cobwebs and dust.  Based on the serial number, that is at least 10 years old, maybe around 13-14 years old. 

I keep thinking that the husband bought it for the wife to use (hence the electric start).  She hit something hard, got scared, and never ran it again.  It sat in a corner of the garage all of these years.  Those plates that hold down the scraper bar and the nuts has no corrosion on them, the valve cover and muffler looks clean.  Everything seems indicate very low service hours so that GX160 is probably barely broken in.

On my 621, the rubber paddles and augers do not rub against the bucket.  There's a small gap, 1/16" or so.  The center paddles are and should be even with the rubber auger blades. 

I hope you decide soon how to finish your shed.  It's not getting any warmer.  I'd personally would go with stain for the look. 

chefwong wrote:
Hey chefwong,

You still around?  Still recovering from Turkey day food coma?

Did you know that the HS35 model comes with an option for skids instead of wheels?  I've seen this on Yamaha small snowblower, but first time I've seen it on a Honda.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Snow%20Blower/0/HS35%20A%20SNOW%20BLOWER%2C%20JPN%2C%20VIN%23%20HS35-1000001/WHEEL/parts.html

By the way, there's a very good condition HS35 for sale near me.  $425.  Ouch!

U did say that I needed to have the *trips*.

I've been busy collecting all the mint HS621 that is remaining stateside.
Well, out went the 520 and in came another minty mint 621. This time it was even in better condition that the last one. There is a very small *dent* on the inside of the bucket and a scratch/scar on the chute but it's nontheless a easy 8.5/10. No rust at all, bucket edges are extremely clean, bolts are nice and clean....and I got it at a steal of a price. Included was a brand new OEM belt, OEM scraper, *honda branded* plug still all in their Honda baggies and a 8.5/10 unit WITH a leaky hose (I've yet to determine the fault as i just came back with it) but the long and short of it was that with the fuel in the tank, it continuously leaks/drips the fuel out until the tank is dry.

I was just looking for a parts machine and came across this HS621....price was right and it got down even cheaper after we discovered the leaking gas issue...
Owner was meticulous, told me how he ran the carb dry, oiled the bolts after every season, sprayed it down with silicone, etc and it shows in the condition...

And this time I did check and made sure the auger was purfect....only small dent that you notice when you run your hand on the backside of the bucket..

In the meantime, I'm in the midst of a R&R of the other one with screws in one box, parts on another, stuff hung and getting ready to be painted, etc.

I went ahead and added new auger augers to my order just because....

I'm so knee deep into it and as silly as it's sounds, I may just want to strip off all the old good decals and put new fresh ones on.

The last thing remaining is whether I spend the big $$$ for a stainless scraper.....

Just some pics for the hell of it....

AA, I GET what you say about the auger stiffness now, as how the rubber sits entirely on the auger paddle frame, as opposed to the lattes where there may be some flex...

SORRRRRY in advance, I will RESIZE THEM LATER ON...

I told you so, if you sell one off, you'll pick up another.  That's just how SAS (snowblower acquisition syndrome) works.    Anyone else has this affliction?

I know you're pretty knee deep in this stuff, but at least it's cheaper than some other things you can get into.  Like gambling or karting.

On the stainless steel scraper bar, is that a custom fabrication or you can readily purchase?

The SS mod....I've kept you in mind

I hit up my local shop that I always use....but to have a exact replica made in SS, it was too costly if not extremely costly.
When is anything with the word custom not costly...

I'm planning to try a couple of other shops in my contact list but I suppose it may be the same or not...
Different fabrication techniques, etc come into play into costing of the final product as well

The SS mod....I've kept you in mind

I hit up my local shop that I always use....but to have a exact replica made in SS, it was too costly if not extremely costly.
When is anything with the word custom not costly...

I'm planning to try a couple of other shops in my contact list but I suppose it may be the same or not...
Different fabrication techniques, etc come into play into costing of the final product as well

Thanks for thinking of me.  I had consider the metal scraper bar a while back when I first acquired the machine.  The plastic ones wear down so fast on concrete surfaces.

Let me know what the cost would be for a stainless steel one.  An exact SS replica sounds awesome.  I'd probably join you for a group buy.  :)  Have you consider titanium, like the ones on knee pucks?  Throw some sparks while snowblowing. 

So what's your plan now that you have two HS621?  Flip one of them for a HS35?

I really need to start putting #'s down on paper or else I will get myself in trouble like I always do with side hobbys.

I think I'm going to do a mild RR on the other 621 and just give it to my sister.

The scraper bar from my CNC shop was very expensive...
It cost MORE than what I paid for the 2nd 621.

I can see that CNC may be expensive.  The scraper looks like an extruded piece.  Have  you looked into spot welding a few pieces of SS together as a cheaper alternative?

As little or as much money and time as I had put towards my HS621, depending on who you ask, I found the RR process was quite fun.  The end result is that I have spanking new looking machine that's ready for service for another 10 years.  I find that it's not that outrageous considering it's a good piece of machine to begin with.

I would do the same as you if I had a second HS621.  I'd give it to family member and I'd do PM on it yearly for good measure.

On my way back, I swung by the shop and asked for a exact replica....but this was with the scraper that I removed out of the fresh baggie.

In reviewing the pics I took of the auger, I just need to sit and visually see how the scraper looks/fits on the machine and decide  what needs to be incorporated/removed into the design  for proper fitment and ridgitity ?
Less intricacies/workings should lower the production costs.

In practical sense, I thought if I was to replace a scraper bar 2 times every year, it will still take a lot of years to equal the price of one custom CNC part.  The last one used was aftermarket and it did not hold up as well.  Hopefully the OEM stuff will be twice as durable.

Anything that has a engine and paint has a soft spot for me.
I knew I would be in for trouble the 1st minute I looked into ~acquiring~ one.

To a degree, I think with the right gauge stock, and good solid welding, it probably can be done in just 2 pieces of stock
One that acts as the scraper base and the latter that acts as a mount. However, I do like the design incorporation with the mounting plates on the
back that sits ontop of the ~ridge~ that reinforces the whole thing.

I'm thinking plastic does have some benefits as well. Since it is a wearable edge, it's also better on pavers.
Softer wearing on wood as well.

I think it's time to scrap the scrap metal idea...

chefwong wrote:
Yeah, the benefits of a metal scraper blade on a single stage are minimal compared to the cost.  Makes more sense on a 2 stage machine.

In the midwest, we just got 5 inches of heavy snow.  Took out the 621 on its maiden snowblowing task after the restoration.  It did really well even against the end of pile stuff.  I did my driveway, all the sidewalks, even the next 4 neighbor's sidewalks too.  The GX160 engine definitely have serious useable torque, smooth, and quiet.  It worked so well, I was going clear the whole block too. 

Scraper bars are not actually supposed to scrape.  Instructions I've read always say to leave a bit of space between the scraper and the surface being cleared by adjusting the skids accordingly. 

borat wrote:
Yes, this applies to 2 stage snowblower, and that's how I set it too.

However, on the single stage, the Honda manual says to set the scraper height so that the rubber auger is above the pavement.  When I tip the single forward, the rubber auger makes contact with the pavement, and the scraper blade does not scrape the pavement.

I sold the 724....
Had a little buyers remorse.

My initial goal was I wanted a 2 stager, something metal, something serrated, something with a secondary blower to cut, chop, dice and then blow the snow out.
Something COMPACT.
This was all based before I built myself a new shed which could hold considerably bigger toys
Found the 724, at a great price and great condition....and bought one at a whim without putting deeper thought into it...

So while sitting back yesterday, looking at engine specs, and between drivetrain loss, I was feeling that even though I love the compactness of the bucket, it was a little underpowered at the end of the day.
I could probably get the same throw with the 621 and a little bit of manual work ice breaking EOD...
So I put it up on CL, got a quick response and ended up having a $500 profit for xmas goodies.

Now off to the interesting part.
Been debating whether it's worthwhile to get a snowblower that is not Supported in any shape or fashion in the USA.
Parts would be a mission to get.
I do like the features of it, it's quiet AND in my research, AFAIK, used agricutural equipment is NOT charged a customs fee when brought back to the US.

hmmm....Tough call. No support and parts support is such a huge factor to a degree ....

Wow, it's been quiet, I thought you were busy wrenching on that 621, not flipping 2 snowblowers.

So I see you're thinking about picking up a Yamaha from across the border.  Either that or a Pisten Bully or a Unimog.across the ocean. :)

aa335 wrote:

You can buy both Pisten Bully and Unimogs (used ones) in the US. Pisten Bully would be great for grooming your driveway so you could ski down to the street.

Unimogs are tough to stop, but parts seem to be tough to get. Maybe an older Toyota Landcruiser with dual flamethrowers would melt the snow better.

ole blue 928 it is. It's probably too late in the season to figure the logistics out....still checking out youtube on how they raise/lower the bucket mechanisim is like but it's sure seems like it's a bite more refined than the latter red bucket.  I'm sure I could probably pick up a powerful old Ariens right now, but I'm just a tad worn out on doing anything more mechanical or painting on any snowblower for at least another 353 days....

Canadian red buckets have air or hydraulic assist cylinder on TCD models. Not sure if it's too late to get any new ones at this time. Prepare to spend big bucks on either blue or red buckets.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking a half pipe on my driveway would be cool to have. :)

aa335 wrote:

If you can make one of those in your driveway I envy you.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Yes, only if those folks in Minne SNOW Ta stop hogging all that snow that's supposed to come down this way.

I'm running out of wax and it's too darn cold to be washing snowblowers on a regular basis.

aa335 wrote:

Well fussing over mine has caused us to get an entire inch of snow. We are supposed to get up to 3 inches but that won't happen. It stopped snowing hours ago. Perfect if I had a single stage.

You do have a single stage, also known as a shovel. :) I got 4 of them. 2 for me, 2 for the kids. :)

Regarding the original topic, I'd have to say this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5UynKisAuQ  16HP, 900 RPM 48" auger

The HS621 is indeed a little pitbull. It's been awhiles since I've used a 520 so it's not a benchmark, but it does seems to make a snouty grunt when it needs the torque.
Throw does not appear to be as far as the 520. Methinks after she get's a little dry, I'll pull the cover off, remove the tensioner pulley and pull the seal , solvent and repack the bearings. I want minimum drivetrain loss off the drive pulley

Chefwong,

I hope that effort can get you another foot of throwing distance.  :)  If that much.  You can try to cross drill the driven pulley to save some weight.  There's some engine mods that the karting people do to get more power if you want to go that route. 

Seriously, the newer HS520 will naturally throw snow further than the old HS621.  The whole power delivery assembly has been lightened and has less rotational mass.  Honda switched to the flat belt, lightened up the auger assembly quite significantly. 

The GX160 engine on the HS621 is a gem.  That engine loves to be loaded up and keeps on pulling.  I have the larger GX340 engine on the two stage snowblower and it is the same way.

I shouldn't have flipped that 2 stager but it was more like a poney rather than a horse.

I've yet to tackle the driveway yet as plows have not even plowed our street, so it's a futile effort as the EOD will merrily come and wall me in.

The biggest difference I did notice was while throw is less, it NEVER stalled out on me, whereas with the 520, with the stuff I have done today, it would have easily stalled numerous times...
Go figure. I recall reading the torque specs between the 2 engines and the #'s were not that far off between each other. Nevertheless, I was quite surprised this little red pony did not stall once when tackling 2 foot high snow today. It just got annoying constantly clearing the jammed chute but I bid my own poison without the 2 stager. No regrets though cause I do feel the power was lacking ...for a big heavy metal impeller/auger...

Are you keeping the 621 or flipping it? 

Not, until something more enticing comes along....
Saw a blurb on a Sno Tek 200CC - http://www.ariens.com/products_snow/sno_tek/single-stage/Pages/default.aspx

For flat pavement, I have always like the singles.
it's a much better dance partner .

That Yammy sure is enticing...
School is back in session tomorrow, and I need to freshen up on my customs import duty knowledge.

chefwong wrote:
What model?

'ole blue 928. I learned my lessons a couple times on impulse overseas buying....
I was on a Hazet and Stahwille frenzy once and ordered a boatload of wrenches. Unbeknowingst to me, I got hit with quite a but of customs ontop..

What if you take the old one in and trade it  so one snowblower goes into Canada and out with a Yamaha into USA?  I am not an international tax lawyer (I only represent injured people who were harmed by high power and expansive snowblowers) so this idea probably has many holes and incorrect assumptions.