Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

The 16" is sold as a Cub Cadet here, and as a Sears Professional. You can google for reviews.

You've been shovelling 4000 sq ft in Canada?

There is a post in another thread where I talk about the issue: http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/49850-0-1.html

I'm not an MTD fan, although if you surveyed most owners you would probably find them satisfied.

Greater width is an advantage when the unit can handle it. If the volume is too great, it will have to run slower or use a partial scoop width. You may prefer a smaller, easier to handle unit.Smaller units often have less power though. On large units, the same engine is often used for all models 30" and up although Toro puts the Briggs 342 on its 28" top of the line model (the biggest snowblower they make)  and MTD uses a 420cc on a 45" model.

Ariens has two 30", one with handwarmers. While lots of high end models have that feature, is it really a critical must have?

I have a similar sized driveway and have been looking at 30" models from Ariens, BASCO (Simplicity/Deere/Snapper), and Husqvarna. All are fine, in the US the Deere 1330SE appears to be best value and may be the most ruggard; the Husqvarna Crown 16530EXL may be the most effective at snow removal but may not be available in Canada, and the Ariens is easiest the handle. The Toro 28" may be even easier to handle but its not my prefered unit for other reasons. I've looked at the MTD's and have rejected on construction quality and some design issues. Reading the reviews of the 33" 16" auger MTD on the US Sears  or as Cub Cadet should be revealing.

Troy-bilt vs Ariens: I'd go Ariens. But for the Deluxe or Platinum model not the Professional. Ariens. The 30" Platinum and Pro models have the same engine and it is unlikely you would notice the 7% difference in width.

Bob,

If you have not made your inquiry yet please ask about the auger rotation speed along with the impeller speed and post them. 

 

I essentially agree with comments of the prior poster except for robustness of the build.  The MTD is lighter than better machines but at a price break and will last with no problem if used properly i.e. don’t drive into rock piles.

 

For your area the Craftsman 28” 277cc engine could be a consideration.  It has essentially the same features as the big Troy Bilt machine (which is the same as Craftsman model 88835).  They are all made by MTD.   The 28 inch would be fine for your area judging the size at 7 feet per year.  It’s 5.1 feet here so close and a 28 would be fine here for an area similar to yours. 

 

The distance figure spec gets the most attention but keep in mind that it’s given for the best conditions which don’t happen often.  Just guessing I would think this machine would throw 25-30 most of the time but I’m not familiar with the newer MTD models.  You are doing your homework on the big machine and can make your own estimates on what you might end up for distance.  If 30-40 is and essential requirement for you then you would need to dig into the 28 also so see if it could be a candidate for distance.

 

One factor that might be important for you is the trigger “power steering”.  It’s a nice feature.  The new models have the same basic design MTD has used for many years and is fine.  This model has the same drive components as the big machine.  The tire grip on the 28 should be fine doing your area.   

 

Outside of wanting great distance a huge machine for your area is not so essential.  It would be helpful if some people with newer MTD based machines would post what they get for distance most of the time.

Thanks Trouts2 and DavidNJ.,

Trouts2, my only fear with the 28" machine, is that the 12" impeller might not throw far enough. Mind you, over the majority of the driveway, I wouldn't really need to throw long distances. 20' to either side might be ok. I'd probably go with the Ariens Platinum or Deluxe in that event.

BTW, the 357cc/ 33" Troy-Bilt I've been looking at, does indeed have the "power steering" feature.

I went to the store today, to have a second look at the Troy-Bilt, but took a little side-trip to a Honda dealer. OMG, are these machines ever nicely put together. I looked at the only one they had in stock, the T724(?). Built like a Swiss watch. Prices seem a bit crazy up here however. If you buy it with the electric start, it's $3500. plus 15.5% tax here in Quebec, Yikes. The salesman told me, "once you go to a machine with tracks, you'll never want to go back". Hmmmm. Mind you, at that price, I may as well hire someone to do my driveway. I'd be good for 7 years, and no maintenance/storage/repair costs, and I wouldn't have to lift a finger. ;-))

As for auger rotation, I'll try to get that info for you trouts2. I presume it's 1/10th the impeller speed. I already sent my request, and should have an answer in the morning. They were very quick to respond to my first question.

I guess it's also worth mentioning that the closest Ariens dealer is 35 miles away. In my area, almost everyone sells MTD under one banner or another.

BTW Trouts2, what are your thoughts regardaring "tracks" vs wheels?

DavidNJ,

Yes, I've been shoveling here in southern Quebec, for the last five or six years. It doesn't take me long actually, but that of course, depends on the conditions and accumulation. Under 3" takes me anywhere from 1 1/2hr-2hrs. The worst part is always the mouth of my driveway, where I get plowed in. An 8"+ snowfall, can take me up to 8 hrs. Good way to keep an ole' fella like me in reasonable shape, don't ya think? ;-)) I've been retired for over 12 years, so there's never much hurry. Mind you, I've recently taken a full-time/part-time job locally, so that can be problematic in a storm situation.

 As for checking out  "reviews", like anything else, you have to be careful with those in my opinion.. I usually take those with a grain of salt. Same with complaints. I also see a LOT of inaccurate speculation in a lot of threads. Example; people who complain about throw-distance, yet they don't do routine maintenance, such as checking belt condition, etc. I sometimes wonder too, if some people store their machines in a heated garage, then go out into the frigid air, only to have snow melt and freeze to their augers and impellers, or impeller housings. Hmmmm. Do that with a shovel, and the snow sticks to the shovel like glue. I keep mine outside at all times, or in an unheated shed. I'll probably do the same with the snow-thrower.

Tomorrow, I'm off to take a look at the Ariens machines again, and I plan on making a side-trip to a John Deere dealer. Problem is, these guys aren't exactly "next door" if I need service/parts. The Troy-Bilt warranty-service shop,, is 10 minutes away, and there's another MTD dealer who's 3 minutes away. He sells mostly Columbia, and some Troy-Bilts. (both MTD I believe).

I know very little about the Poulan machines, but Costco seems to have good pricing on those. They're also close to the Ariens dealer. The Poulans I've seen, have 12" impellers however..

As for MTD machines in general, I'm aware that most people don't care much for them, yet I do see quite a few satisfied owners. Most of the negative opinions i've come across, seem to come from non-owners. They may be right, but I certainly have seen a lot of misinformation regarding the MTD machines too, especially as far as motor and gear components are concerned. Mind you, I'm only now getting into this game, so I'm late for the parade. The machines I'm seeing are all new, with new motors, etc.

Although I had hoped to buy a machine this coming weekend, I won't take the plunge 'til I'm satisfied that I've chosen a reasonably performant and durable machine, at an attractive price. Who knows,,,, maybe even the Honda (now lemme see,,,,,,winters in Florida,,,, or,,, stay home and blow snow with my Honda,,,,, :-))

>>Trouts2, my only fear with the 28" machine, is that the 12" impeller

 

   Starting in the middle of the driveway the toss distance is ½ the driveway width which is not far for a 1 or 2 car wide driveway.   For a few areas you may want a toss much further and even further than your snowblower can do.  If your area does not have many very long distance spots then you can double toss them.  For most storms going over a few double tossed to places is not a big deal.  For a few storms when the snow is high and wet it will be a struggle but also get done.  Getting a monster machine to cover worse case isn’t required.  You’ll be clearing mostly smaller storms during the year.  Even for 12 inch levels double tossing is not a problem for average weight snow.

   A 28 would probably take care of you.  Companies have a ballpark number for tossing speed out of the chute.   A 12 or 14 inch impeller machines usually have different size drive pulleys that make the final fan speed approximately the same.  Smaller fan big pulley.  Big fan smaller pulley.  Both run at roughly the same ft/sec output.  The numbers are worth looking into when you go to dealers.  The bigger machine with 14 inch usually come with bigger motors so an advantage for distance.   

 

>>I'd probably go with the Ariens Platinum or Deluxe in that event.

   You can get the manuals online for any Ariens you are interested in.  The spec’s section of the operators manual lists the fan speeds.  Ariens run 1300 rpm fans on 12 inch machines and 1075 on 14 inch.  With the drive pulleys different both machines output is about 3900 ft/sec so that element alone equal.  The 14 machine may come with a larger motor.   

 

>>BTW, the 357cc/ 33" Troy-Bilt I've been looking at, does indeed have the "power steering" feature.

    In case you missed it the 28 Craftsman has power steering also.   Craftsman has 28 models with and without it.  

   The 4 way chute on the MTD machines is not the best.   For a low angle on the chute hood the joy stick is down and forward and moving left or right from that position ok.  For a high hood setting the joystick is up and hard to move left and right.  It requires putting some force on the joystick.  There's a lot of slop in the movement and if it were to be used in the high position all the time would take it's toll over the years.  If you go back to check out the 33 inch try moving the joystick with the hood down then up and you'll see that I mean.  The feel is not the best. 

 

>>Honda.  Built like a Swiss watch. Prices seem a bit crazy up here however.

    I’ve been told and it was years ago that a Bently was one of the cheapest cars to own over the long haul.  It’s tough to layout the money for such a car.   I’ve also been told that people in Japan buy a snowblower and expect it a lifetime purchase.  They expect quality and put up with the initial cost. 

 

>>As for auger rotation, I'll try to get that info for you trouts2. I presume it's 1/10th the impeller speed.

   Generally that’s the case but not always.  Some Ariens machines run 130 rpm on the augers on machines that have 12 or 14 inch impellers. 

 

>>BTW Trouts2, what are your thoughts regardaring "tracks" vs wheels?

Wheels or tracks are both ok depending on your area.  MTD’s can come with triggers like on the Troy.  MTD uses the same trigger drive on wheels and tracks.  They are a breeze to use. 

Honda and Yamaha don’t have powered steering and a bit harder to turn than a wheeled machine especially wheeled machines that have some sort of free wheel or differential.  Most of the time your underway and guiding a track is no problem.  When not running the motor and trying to move one they are a pain.  You have to get used to using them.   

Trouts2,

Thanks again for the info. I also checked-out your website,,,, nice work.

Regarding the chute/deflector on the 33" Troy-Bilt, there are two separate controls. The joystick controls only the deflector. There is a separate hand-crank for chute rotation. I like this arrangement, since it's probably easier on the cables. On some machines that I'vce seen, the handcrank can be a little stiff to turn, but, that's usually an installation/assembly issue as far as I can see. The hand-crank shaft passes through an eye-bolt with a plastic or rubber insert (eye), and if that eye is not perpendicular to the hand-crank shaft, it can cause resistance. Simple adjustment.

Re; snow accumulation,

I'll probably only use the thrower when snowfall exceeds 2 1/2". I'm so used to doing it by hand with a scraper, that it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to use the thrower. Mind you, I'd probably use the thrower for "pushing back" the snowbanks along the perimeter of the driveway after several light snowfalls, and for doing the EOD.

re; studded tires,

It's a shame you don't see these things offered as an option. For hilly driveways like mine, where ice/freezing rain can be a problem, I'd imagine these would be quite handy. Apparently, the Ariens dealer I spoke to offers this option through a private installer. The guy charges $100.

Ooops!!! One more point regarding the deflector on the MTD/Troy-Bilt machines. The deflector tilt can get a little sticky, and that is caused by the end of the chute, rubbing on the inside of the deflector. This occurs when using acute deflector angles. A simple touch-up along the top edge of the chute with a file, would deal with that issue quite easily I would think.

>>On some machines that I'vce seen, the handcrank can be a little stiff to turn, but, that's usually an installation/assembly issue as far as I can see.

 

   Yes, once adjusted they are fine.  The setup is simple and inexpensive but lasts forever.  The 33 I looked at would not even turn the chute at all.  Great display setup by Sears.

 

   You probably won’t need chains or studs.  Chains work very well and are much cheaper. 

I'll check out chains today. Last time I looked, they were $70. plus tax. I'm sure I can do better.

RE chains / studs;

My driveway entrance has a substantial slope for the first 50' or so. When it's icy, it can be very tricky to walk on. I have to sand that hill in order to take my car out, otherwise, it slides down the hill.

I've actually fallen while shoveling, and slid right down to the EOD snowbank. Had that snowbank not been there, I might have slid right into traffic. Pretty scary stuff when it happens. The street in front is a main thoroughfare, so plenty of traffic.

Welcome fellow Quebecer. My response would be to get the right width for your situation (if you read trouts website you are already well informed) then go for the biggest motor they have on that width machine. I've seen 24" machines with 10hp and 32" machine with 10hp. Which will perform better when trying to take full width cuts?
I think that like any other machine and longevity, it's how you use and maintain it that counts. I'm close to your age & I got tired of shoveling (was pretty easy last year). But I'm cheap so I stuck to used machines, so I've seen some well maintained and some not so much. With respect to the cost of new vs a contract the question is, will the contractor always be there promptly? Besides, I think it's almost therapeutic blasting that snow across the yard.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks GtWtNorth, and possibly fellow "hoser"  Hello from Lachute.

Well, I went shopping again today. Looked at a Poulan Pro 27" at Costco, some Toro's, and Ariens Deluxe & Platinum series at Home Depot,  and a couple of Ariens Pro's (28" & 32") at an OPE dealer. I'm trying to calm myself down here, cuz this is getting out of hand pricewise. I got offered a couple of good deals on the Ariens Pro's $2400.tx incl. on the 28", and $2900. tx incl. on the 32".  Ariens is also offering a "win your Ariens snow-thrower" contest. Your name goes in a draw, and 2 lucky winners will have the price of their purchase refunded.

There was more to the Pro series than I had originally realized; for example, the impeller/auger pullies (dual pulley drive). The gear hub for the auger is massive, with cast-iron gears. I was a bit surprised to see 14" impellers on these Pro Series throwers, since I thought I had read somewhere that the new-model Pro Series machines had 16" impellers this year. The ones I saw today had 16" augers, but 14" impellers. Hmmmm. I'm wondering if these were last years models, with new engines (Briggs & Stratton). Financing is available,,, at 0% for two years. Not bad. The dealer is expecting another shipment of Pro Series machines next week, and we're going to compare the impellers to his current floor models. As for tires, I was also a bit surprised to see 4" wide tires on the 28" Pro model. The 32" machine (and larger), gets 6.5" wide tires.

This $3000. price-range is nudging me closer to a Honda 928 (uh oh). The HS928TC has tracks, and is $3399. No financing deals however, and the dealer is selling at full MSRP. Typical Canadian dealer I'm afraid. I can't seem to find any detailed specs on the Honda's. like impeller diameter, rotation-speed, etc. All I'm seeing is throughput in metric tons. As for promotions, Honda is offering a chance to win an all-terrain vehicle.

My head hurts.

The pricing for those Honda is quite astronomical.  I've heard that about Honda's in Canada, selling at full MSRP every year.  This is both bad and good.  MSRP = bad, but resale = good.

However, as a HS1132TAS owner, I think the HS928TCD is the cat's meow.  Just the perfect weight / width / power ratio for the average homeowner.  The electric chute control and onboard battery start is great.  Too bad this model is not available in the US.

I wouldn't mind being in your shoes now.  My head wouldn't be hurting, I'd get that HS928TCD parked in my garage ASAP.

DON'T tempt me,

Thank God my local dealer doesn't have one (HS928TCD) in stock. He has only one, and it's an HS724TCD. Why can't I find any detailed specs on these machines,,,, argh !!! The HS724TCD looks too small for my needs, but,,,, mebbe not.

Hehehe.  It's not too hard to tempt anyone who has entered the Honda arena.  Like you said, it's like a Swiss watch, i think it's more like a classic Leica camera.

The HS724TCD is a bit small and could use a bit more horsepower, IMO.  However, if you don't have a huge area and not in a hurry, I think it would be a easy to handle machine.  The HS724 has been criticized for being too small and weak for it's price.  However, the HS928TCD really has no peers, there's only one like that with the tracks, features and performance.  You can get an Ariens and Simplicity/Deere to equal in snowthrowing performance, but you can't get it in a tracked version.

aa335,

Any idea what the impeller and auger diameters are on these machines? I'm also wondering if the 928 is a 9 HP machine.

drifter wrote:
My quick and dirty measurement of the HS1132 came to 12' impeller and 14" auger.  This is the same on the 928 and 1132, not sure on the 724 though, it may have a 10"  impeller.  When I was shopping for snowblowers, Honda impeller and auger sizes were fairly conservative, smaller, as compared to Ariens and Simplicity.  I don't think they win any bragging rights for size, even the intake height was middle of the road.

The 928 has a 9 hp engine.  It maybe a rounded up number though.  It's not the most powerful 28".

I think Honda snowblowers are kinda like BMW cars.  Conservatively rated, but well designed and makes efficient use of the power.  Quirky and expensive, yes.

Thanks aa335.

On a side-note, I just found out that my annual average snowfall is not 7 feet. That number was for Montreal. I'm in the Laurentian foothills, close to the Ottawa River valley, and the annual average snowfall for Lachute is 10.5'. Geesh,,,,no wonder I'm tired of shoveling.

I wonder if a military-surplus flame-thrower might be a cheaper alternative.

drifter wrote:
Probably, but you can only have so much fun until the neighbors call the cops.

I prefer spending winters in Florida over the flame thrower.

drifter wrote:
Geez,

What are you complaining about?  With that kind of snowfall per year, I'd be tempting you to get a Kubota tractor with a front mount snowblower. 

And that's with a heated cab and a rocking stereo system.

I have a new found respect for you, to be able to shovel that much snow and still have energy to chase down the missus.

drifter wrote:

Hi drifter: I just sold my Honda HS624WA (wheel drive) that I used for 10 years - what a great machine. IMO this is the perfect combination of compactness and power in a 2 stage snowblower. You do have to take a smaller bite sometimes, especially at the EOD but that is offset by virtue of its compact design if that is a consideration.The only reason I sold it was a friend got relocated down south and no longer needed his barely used Honda HS928TA (track drive) so I scooped it up before he moved. I have quite a bit of area to clear - 150' of sloped driveway with a good sized EOD area, several walkways that lead to the back of my house, 12' x 40' deck, runways that lead to my firewood stacks, etc... It usually takes me about 3 hours start to finish for an 8" - 12" snowfall, sometimes a little more if it's real wet and heavy, sometimes a little less if it's real light and fluffy.

I have not had the opportunity to use my new 928 yet as I picked it up in mid March of this year and we unfortunately did not have a good, snowy winter last year. The last storm with any marked accumulation was in late February so needless to say, it has been a very long spring, summer and now fall for me waiting to use my new toy! I had originally purchased my 624 as a used 2 y/o machine for $800.00 and sold it this past August for $750.00 one day after I posted it on CL - not a bad ROI for a 12 y/o snowblower. I probably could have got more if I held out until this time of year but it kept getting in my way in my garage so away it went for $750.00. The only items I ever replaced were several sets of skid shoes, 1 scrapper plate, 8 or so shear pins and an oil change/spark plug every year, all standard wear or maintenance items. I purchased and mounted a headlight kit and put tubes in the tires as it was a PITA to air them up every fall after they went airless during the downtime, getting the beads to seat properly with a handpump was the problem.

I had a much smaller property when I purchased it and had considered it a bit too small for my current property when I first moved but as I said earlier, you just have to take a smaller bite in some areas, EOD in particular. I was actually starting to peruse CL in late February/early March for a HS928 as that is the time when a lot of people are starting to unload their used snowblowers for fairly short $$$. My friends situation developed at this time and the rest is history. I think you would be well served with the HS928TCD for your situation and would definitely benefit from the track drive model. I did not mean to be so long winded but I thought this information would prove helpful in your purchasing decision. Good Luck!

Model                               auger, impeller, impeller, engine, impeller output                             

920012 Compact 22LE    11 12  1190 9.5 ft-lbs     3738(1139)
920013 Compact 22E      11 12  1190 Sub SX17   3738(1139)
920014 Compact 24LE    11 12  1190 9.0               3738(1139)
920015 Compact 26LE    11 12  1190 11.5             3738(1139)
921013 Deluxe 30             14 14  1010 14.5 ft-lbs   3702 (1128)
921017 Deluxe 24 Plat    14 14  1010 11.5 ft-lbs    3702 (1128)
921018 Deluxe 30 Plat    14 14  1010 16.5 ft-lbs    3702 (1128)
921019 Deluxe 24           14 14  1010 Sub SX21     3702(1128)
921020 Deluxe 30           14 14  1010 Sub SX30     3702(1128)
921022 Deluxe 28           14 14  1010 11.5 ft-lbs     3702(1128)
921023 Deluxe T28         14 14  1010 11.5 ft-lbs     3702(1128)
923037 Pro                       16 14  1112 14.5ft-lbs      4076 (1242)
932038 Pro                       16 14  1112 15.5 ft-lbs     4076 (1242)
932039 Pro                       16 14  1112 16.5 ft-lbs     4076 (1242)
932040 Pro                       16 14  1112 16.5 ft-lbs     4076(1242)
926104 Pro                       16 14  1112 16.5 ft-lbs     4076(1242)
926105 Pro                       16 14  1112 16.5 ft-lbs     4076(1242)

aa335 wrote:
Yeah, my buddy works for a snow-removal company, and they drive huge machines. Every now and then, if he passes by my house during a storm, he'll pull into my driveway, and give me a "freebie". Takes him about 4-5 minutes. He's in the closed cab, wearing a long-sleeved t-shirt (no jacket), and the musics' blaring. His machine is so big, I can't reach the top of the tires. The bucket is huge, and he can vary the width of the bucket (hydraulic system. These guys do shopping centers, hospitals, and a huge inter-provincial bridge which joins  Hawkesbury Ont. / Grenville Qc.)

FrankMA wrote:
Yeah, I'm starting to think the same way. I'm really impressed with these track machines, and the throughput. One thing I've noticed on the Youtube videos, is the pace at which the operators advance through the snow. It's not only about "throw distance". Very impressive.

I just called a Yamaha dealer, and he has the re-born Yamaha snow-throwers in stock. I may go see one today if time permits. Mind you, he's an hours' drive away. His 928 version sells for $4k, and Yamaha has no financing deals available. Apparently, the Yamahas are very quiet.

If Honda/Yamaha offered financing deals, I'd probably jump in with both feet. As it stands, I'm having a helluva hard time justifying spending $4600 (tax incl), on a HS928T snow thrower, when I could hire someone to do it for me at $400-$500 / season. I guess it just pisses me off that Honda USA is offering deals, and Honda Canada is not. That's the pill I have to swallow, and it's a BIG one. I searched the local "used" market, and nothing came up.

I realize these are "long term" trouble-free machines, but I'm not convinced I'll stay at my present location beyond the next 3-4 years, and that's another major consideration in my selection process.

Ay chance you could go over the border and buy one in the US? I know that I've seen a lot of people from Montreal and Quecbec City and that general area coming down here to buy stuff including cars and campers/RV's/motorcycles.

Hi Steve,

I'm not that far from the border,,, say 1 1/2 hrs to Plattsburgh NY. Problem is, you buy a machine in the US, and my local dealers won't service it, at least for warranty repairs.

Any idea Steve, on what current pricing is like in the US for a HS928TCD? That's the bare-bones version of the 928, with no light' no electric-start, and no electric chute control. I thought I read somewhere, that Honda USA offers financing at very low, or 0% financing. The price here in Quebec is $3399. plus 15.5% tax. That's over $3900. and our dollar is currently fluctuating around par with the greenback.

A 928 with electric start, is $3999 plus tax,,,, $4630.........Insanity.

Mebbe I'm just a tightwad.

drifter wrote:

They do sell the Honda 928TAS I can find out what those cost tommorrow if you like. The dealership is closed now. If you drive down  as far as New Hampshire there is no sales tax. So that would net you a discount of $465 which would buy you a lot of gas. New York has taxes too. For reference it takes me about 5 hours to drive to Montreal if I am not questioned too long at the border. Vermont is closer but has taxes as well. The price direct from Honda is $2,709USD that is for a TA model with no electric Start. The 928TAS with the tracks and electric start is $2,909USD. I had the electric start and found it was useless since it pulls over so easily. Now remember that's retail from Honda. The dealers will probably discount it a bit to make a fast sale. I can give you the name & numbers of dealers around my area but there might be some closer to Vermont. I recall I didn't want the electric start and that's all they had so they discounted $100 off the unit, so I got the electric start for $50.

I guess you have to figure out how many repairs under warranty you will have versus saving about $1,000USD seems like that would cover a lot of repairs tho.

Steve,

I went to see another Honda dealer today, and told him of my plight, and lo and behold, the guy offers me $100. off,,,, and free delivery. It ain't much mind you, but it's a starting point. He'll also throw in the light for free.......... I smell blood.

Another development too;  He has a client who's returning an HS1132 TCD which he bought last winter, because it's too big for him. We had the lightest snowfall on record last year, and the guy barely used it. I'll have more details on that one by Monday, and possibly as early as tomorrow. That machine has a throughput rating of 65 metric-tons per hour. It's a beast. The salesman says it looks brand new, and that I can probably get that machine for roughly $3500, delivered, with full balance of warranty for 1 year. Hmmmmm. The plot thickens.

From there, I went to visit the new Yamaha machines, and they're quite a sight to behold. Their 928 sorta resembles a mini-Zamboni. There's a housing that surrounds the motor and gas-tank. This housing reduces engine noise substantially. VERY quiet machine.

Yamaha has put some really nice small touches on this series. For example, the top of the gas-tank sticks up slightly above the top of the housing, and surrounding the edge of the gas-tank(seam), there is a built-in drip-pan, for catching any fuel that accidentally drips on the machine. The fuel is then diverted to an opening on one side to channel fuel away from the motor, and/or  allow for possible recovery.

Yamaha has also lined the interior of the chute, as well as the impeller housing, with what appears to be Teflon. The pieces are user-replaceable. Simple idea, and a great idea too. The sheets look to be roughly 1/8" thick.

There is also a "pin" on  the left front track drive-wheel shaft, and that pin can be pulled, making the tracks independent. of one another, which allows you to turn the machine easily on a concrete floor. Mind you, the guy had a tough time reinserting that pin.

I also learned some very neat tricks today, for turning the Honda track machines on a concrete floor, with almost no effort. One finger, and voila.  Another cool thing was that the machine easily climbs stairs, in the event that you want to clear a walkway, or a deck. Kewel.

Edit; Oh yeah,  I forgot to mention that the Yamaha dealer claimed that their 928 throws up to 75'.

Well I'd say you are all set as long as the guy returning the 1132 didn't drive it into a big rock. It's a big machine tho and it will handle differently in snow than in a showroom.

It sounds like you have some good options up there and if not you can always buy in the US if you need to. The Yamaha is overkill but looks great. Honda makes a mega machine for Canada that has tracks and can steer them indepentantly, shame it costs like $8,000USD!

Be sure to post whatever unit you end up with. i'm sure you'll love the Honda as long as you don't have a small wife like mine. :)

Will do Steve. I'm still hunting though. I'll use these proposals to try and wangle a bit more of a deal from my local dealer here in town. These guys by the way, claim that they only make $50. profit on a machine, and that if it was up to them, they wouldn't sell them at all.     I was waiting for the guy to try and sell me a bridge in Manhattan.

drifter wrote:

You can be sure they make more than that if Honda does anything resembling typical retail. Also they get service and warranty work so they make money on the back end as well. But like a car dealer you never really know how much is really made on each unit. I never worry about the dealer, if there wasn't money in it they as a dealer wouldn't sell them and as a sales person they'd find another job and clearly neither is doing that.

drifter wrote:

Please elaborate further....

FrankMA wrote:
He walked into the Honda dealer, pointed to the corner in the opposite side of the showroom and said "I would like to see what it looks like over there."

I already have the furniture dolly so I hope that's not the solution.... Kind of hoping for some sort of revelation as far as moving my 928TA without the engine running.

You can disengage the transmission from the axle by sliding that little lever near the foot pedal to the side.  The tracks will roll. 

It's not a relevation, but it works if you only need to move it 10 feet.  Any further, I'd go with the dolly

drifter wrote:

I'd like to see this one. 

FrankMA,

I don't recall exactly which levers and handles the guy used, but basically aa335 covered it. Reaching down and sliding a lever at the back of the track-assembly, disengages the transmission, and the tracks roll freely. That was only a part of the salesmans' demo. He also "lifted the augers" somehow, then, by applying a small amount of lift under the handles, he's able to tilt the machine forward slightly. This puts all of the weight of the machine on the front-end of the tracks, and he was able to rotate the machine VERY EASILY. He said to me, "here, you try it,,,, using only 1 finger". I did, and it worked like a charm. This was on a smooth concrete floor in the showroom. I believe the transmission was engaged for that part of the demonstration, because the tracks weren't "free-rolling".

aa335 wrote:
Yeah, me too. 75 feet is a longggg way. Maybe downhill, when the wind is "just right". like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE4Ke2OFg3E&feature=related

or this guy; with his 928;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc87ChvVF7A&feature=related

drifter wrote:
Thanks drifter and aa335: I know about the tranny disengagement lever to "freewheel" the tranny but the using one finger to move it thing has me puzzled. I'm in pretty good shape and there's no way I could move my 928 with one finger - the machine weighs about 250 lbs. as it is. Just curious as to what he did to be able to accomplish this task. aa335, are you able to pull this off somehow with your machine? 

FrankMA,

Have you tried lifting your augers? With the augers lifted, you just apply a small amount of pressure under the handles, This rocks the machine forward, and it's very easy to lift the back of the tracks off the ground. The tracks are on their "tip-toes" so-to-speak. The full length of the track is not contacting the floor,,,, only the forward tips of the tracks are touching the floor. Now, you simply rotate the machine, and there's very little resistance.

drifter wrote:
Don't forget the Ariens 2232 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BahOwtQrvuo

I can't do it with one finger.  Even with the transmission disengaged, it still require considerable force to push or pull on the handles.  You can get it turn easier by putting all your weight on the handlebars to lift the bucket off the ground.  Then just pirouette around the back end of the tracks, instead of the full length.

I guess you can pivot around the bucket, but that puts a lot of weight on the skids.  You would risk scratching your floor.  Never used this technique though.

I have a dolly if I want to move it around a lot.  I can get the snowblower on the dolly without using the engine and tracks to crawl up.  :)  It's easier than you think, but requires some creative work.  It's all leverage and technique.  If you muscle against a 250lb tracked snowblower, well, u get a good workout.

drifter wrote:

I  must be missing something? There are 3 positions that I'm aware of on these units high, middle and low. High is transport mode where the bucket is slightly off the ground, middle is where the scrapper bar makes contact with the ground and low is where the scrapper is really digging into the ground. I just went down to my garage and tried what you described but the best I could do was to get the bucket to contact the ground and kind of spin the whole machine using the bucket as a pivot point. Is this what the salesman did?

I think the salesman stepped on the pedal and locked the bucket up in transport mode, lift up on the handle bars. The bucket will drop slightly, the weight of the snowblower shift to the front of the tracks, then turn on just the small track contact patch.

Yep, that's it aa335. I don't think the bucket was touching the ground, and in retrospect, I'm quite sure it wasn't. I was just looking at the tracks, and only the portion of track under the drive-wheels was contacting the floor. From there, it was simply a matter of rotating the machine left or right. No heavy lifting at all.

For clarity's sake, I should also point out that the 1-finger method, was simply for rotating the machine. It had nothing to do with displacing the machine to another area..

drifter,

While we're on the topic of moving up and down the bucket in 3 different positions, I just remembered something about the HS928TCD that the bare bones 928TA does not have.  It is the hydraulic assist and lever to actuate the bucket up and down.  The US version, non - TCD, have the pedal instead of the lever.  While it does the job, I would prefer a lever because trying to step on that pedal while you're on ice covered ground puts you at risking of slipping. 

If the salesman hasn't already demonstrated this feature, it may be worthwhile to check it out to see whether it's worth the additional cost of the TCD models.

You're already seriously considering the Honda, a little more $ for the TCD may be better in the long run.

aa335 wrote:

aa335: Which position do find yourself using most often? I have not had the opportunity to use my new toy yet and am curious about the transport mode position. Seems like this allows the operator the choice of having the scrapper bar make contact with the pavment or having it slightly off the pavement.

I rarely use the scraper setting (bucket angled down, lots of weight).  It's too much strain on the snowblower.  If I do use it, I go very slow give the auger plenty of time to chew the ice up. 

I use the normal (middle) setting for clearing snow, and the transport setting (bucket up) at the end of the row for making tight 90 and 180 / u-turns.  I do use the pedals a lot to go from these two settings.   Hence, the a hydraulic lift assist and lever would be much more convenient over the manual lift and pedal.

I'm still so new to these machines that I didn't realize there were different methods for raising the augers. I'll check-out that hydraulic system when I go back.

On a side-note; I'm checking out the "used" market today, and I just missed an 11-32 for $2000. I don't know how old it was, but it looked new (newly repainted).

I was surprised to see that for the most part, 2 year old and less HS928's, are going for $3200. plus.  I'll keep looking, but that 1 year-old HS11-32 which the dealer is receiving, is starting to look attractive at $3500.

FrankMA wrote:

I had a 928TAS and believe me there is no way you can move it with one finger unless you are "Andre the Giant". Yes you can freewheel the tracks as has been stated but you are still moving 200+ lbs. on tracks. The lever to tilt the bucket is a cool feature and it actually has 3 positions way up like 2 inches high and then near the ground and then scraping the ground. That's how mine was setup anyway. Also a cool feature as the machine tends to stay put and not ride up.

Guys, I'm starting to think there might be a "blue" snow thrower in my driveway shortly.

I dunno,,,, that Yamaha YS928J sure is starting to look VERY attractive to me. I really liked how quiet this machine was. It has 12vdc start (battery), the engine shroud which keeps noise levels down, serrated scraper-bar, teflon-lined chute and impeller housing, fuel gauge(need to verify), drift-cutter, auto-choke, and electronic chute control.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=3537&section=td&group=G#contentTop

drifter wrote:

Supposed to be a great machine but expensive. If you do buy one take pics of it. :)

Will do Steve,

I have to go back and take a closer look at both,,, the Honda and the Yamaha. They're both the same price when you choose the electric-start models.

I want to actually operate the bucket-lift mechanisms, and I want to move both machines around. Small detail; I'm not certain the Yammy has hand-warmers.

drifter wrote:

drifter: That is one impressive machine! Looks very up to any snow clearing task you could possibly throiw at it - at 373 lbs. it's a real beast. Please keep us posted and don't forget pictures when (not if) you buy it and get it home.

FrankMA wrote:
Hehehehehe , I dunno there FrankMA. It's a tough call. The Hondas are lighter, but noisier. Yamaha has a 1 year commercial warranty, vs 3 months for the Honda, which doesn't really affect me, but may speak to the ruggedness of the Yamaha. Both have the same 2 year residential warranty.

The Yamaha definitely has the advantage as far as noise levels are concerned. If I come home late at night, and the snow-plow has buried the end of my driveway, I can fire it up without disturbing the neighbor.

I'm still uncertain as to the electronic chute controls on both machines. Strikes me as a possible failure-point. I wonder how reliable those things are, and what your options are in the event of failure.

I also want to find out about back-up start, in case the battery dies on the electric-start models. The Honda has a manual back-up starter on the TCS models.

Last but not least,,,, justifying spending that kind of money on a snow-thrower at my age. Mind you, the re-sale values are so good, that it probably wouldn't cost much in the long run, and I'd be working with a top-flight machine. The flip-side of that argument is, will I still want to be doing my own snow-removal after I completely retire (2 1/2 years at most).

That is a lot of $$$. I bought both of my Hondas as used machines and saved a bunch a dough (I kind of stumbled upon both). The only suggestion I could make is to scour CL or other similar sites every day, many times/day and be prepared to jump on a new posting immediately. You could also try "searchtempest.com" which is a tool that allows you to search CL and E-Bay outside of your typical geographic area. I found my Garden Tractor employing this technique and it works - you just have to be very diligent. Have your $$$ ready and get as much info from the seller as possible or you might end up wasting a bunch of your time. Some people's idea of "excellent condition" or "like new" can vary widely.

I'm going to keep looking FrankMA. The snow is at least a month away in my area, perhaps longer. Hopefully , I'll get my hands on that nearly-new 1132 my dealer told me about. I should know by tomorrow, or in the next few days.

Either way, I'm convinced tracks are the way to go for me. This guys' reaction says it all when it comes down to this class of machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHNLbAW6j7k&feature=related

Hmmmm, I hadn't searched for used Yamahas, but I just found a bunch of them, ranging from $999. for a freshly tuned-up 624, to $1995 for a similar-condition 828. Both are from the same dealer, so I presume they're trade-ins for the new models.

Edit; Same dealer is selling the new YS928J for $200. under MSRP. Things are looking up.

Finding a bunch of Hondas today as well.  $2100. for an HS828TCD in what appears to be mint condition.

drifter wrote:
Drifter, maybe you should confirm that price. Where I am I think the price for a contract is closer to $1000 if not more for a regular 12' x 30' drive. Throws a whole new light on the make vs buy calculation!

Cheers

Yes, you're right. It's been quite a while since I checked. Ten years ago, when I bought my present home, it was costing me $160./season. When fuel prices surged a few years back, it went to $400. Gas is cheaper now, so I'm not sure there's been an increase, but I will check it out in the morning. Last time I talked to the guy, he told me he'd come to do my driveway for $25. for a single storm.

BTW, I've also got a line on a couple of Honda HS1132TCD's, a 2004, and a 2007 at $2300, and $2700 respectively.

One thing I'm curious about is; how "small" of a machine I should consider? Example; a dealer reconditioned Yamaha YS624 for only $999. I'm thinking that this machine may be totally fine for me as a temporary solution. Why would I want a "temporary solution"? Well, my gut instinct tells me that Yamaha has fired a shot across Hondas' bow, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see at least one new model in Honda's line-up in the near future, to up the ante. Mind you, these things don't happen overnight. I'm thinking that the competition will be very beneficial for consumers.

RE, a used 624 or 724, I wouldn't lose much on a resale, and could wait to pounce on the right deal for a newer, bigger machine.

From my perspective, it's a toss-up. Yamaha or Honda, and I'll be a very happy drift-buster.

drifter wrote:
Those Yamaha are nice. 

I don't know if you had perused the literature, but the Yamaha 928 model does away with the shear pins for the auger.  Something they call "shock protector".  Sweet.

Or for a little more, you can step up to the 1232 and get the independent track locks with a lever.  I think it does automatic auger lift when you shift into reverse.

aa335, That 1232 looks like a heckuva machine. Now that I've gotten used to looking at this class of machinery, that unit actually seems to be reasonably priced for the individual who needs that capacity. If I was a bit younger, I think I'd knock on some neighbours' doors, and line up a few contracts.

Just curious aa335, you don't happen to be a fan of the Gibson 335 by any chance???

No, I'm not.  I wished I was musically inclined, that is a sweet looking guitar.

I really like those Yamaha.  Haven't seen them around here in the US.  With those kind of prices, I would expect home demo's before plunking down that kind of cash.

You should see Yamaha promotion videos on youtube, they depict a young lady operating the Yamaha and smiling.  :)  How far from reality that is, but great snowblowing and scenery.  If I were retiring, I want that kind of environment.

I'm a guitar nut, which is why I asked. Got a BIIIIG bunch of them.

Hehe, I'm a camera and audio equipment nut, now a OPE addict.  Now that I'm married and have kids, I just can't go out and buy a nice shiny blue Yamaha on a whim.  :)

aa335 wrote:
Oh come on now,,,,, you know you WAAAAAAAANT IT. Tell them the made you do it.

drifter wrote:
You just show me how to hide a 350 lb Yamaha next to a 250 lb Honda snowblower and maybe I'll do it.  I got enough slush fund to do it.  Hehehe.

How many Gibson does it take to buy one Yamaha?

aa335 wrote:
Depends. I've got any one of a  few that could be traded in on the Yammie, and they'd owe me change.

There you go, the only thing left to do is pick "Big Red" or "Big Blue"

As I said above, I'll be happy with either one. I'm just curious at the moment, about the smaller machines. older 624 or 724 or similar. I'd still want to eventually have a 928 or 1132, but while I'm waiting for the right opportunity to come along, I may simply buy a smaller / older machine. I presume they'll do the same job, but just take longer to do it. I'm currently  looking at an older Yamaha YS624, which has been tuned-up and has new belts installed.  The dealer says it's in very good condition. Price is $999.99. I'm thinking I'd re-sell that machine once I get a good deal on a nearly-new larger machine. (928, or 1132)

Don't forget, here in Quebec, that brand new Yamaha YS928J would cost me over $4600. after taxes. I figure I can buy a 2 or 3 year old 1132 for around $3k from a private vendor, Private sales are non-taxable here, but used machines are taxable if purchased from a dealer.

   I’ve had 4 YS624’s which I used and one YS828W (wheeled) that I did not get to use.  A guy I had been corresponding with liked the Yamaha so much he drove from Boston to NY to pick one up.  On the way back he stopped here and I got to throw beside it with 10 and 11.5 Ariens.  The 828 kept up with the 10 and lost out to the 11.5.   The Yamahas were all late 80’s and early 90’s machines.  The US machines I tested with were all late 90’s to mid 2000’s.    

 

   The 624’s are impressive and can clear and toss like a US 8.  It seems like the newer Yamahas have a lot of newer components like hydro vs friction disk but the base components similar to the old machines i.e. housing, blower and dash arrangement.  These machines all had remote hood control (that worked, never iced up).

 

   You mentioned 624’s but I’m not sure when Yamaha stopped selling in Canada.  What year are those?  A late 80’s early 90’s 624 goes for 4-500 US around Boston.  I picked up all of mine for $100 to $200.  I'm not sure were the Loonie is but if it's close to the buck then $999 is very steep compared to prices down here. 

   If you picked up a decent shape YS624 track you’d  probably end up keeping it but it depends.  You mentioned your street was a main street.  If it’s wide and you get a big EOD buildup that has salt and driven over so wet and very compact then the 6 would struggle but get the job done.  Most machines would have a tough time.  The 624 does very well in wet tougher conditions though and to top it you’d have to make a decent side jump in hp on a machine that had good auger and impeller speeds.

By the way, the Yamahas have developed a cult following and have their own web fan club at Nabble.  After getting my first one I could see why and joined.

drifter wrote:

That's a considerable sum of money.  In all seriousness, I'm happy with my snowblower, can't see myself dumping it to get a new Yamaha unless a ridiculously good deal comes my way.

Guys,,,, That's it..... I'm done shopping. I'm making up my mind tonight, but it's down to two BRAND NEW machines.   In the morning, I'm off to the bank.

My local Honda dealer has offered me the HS928TC for $200. off,,, free delivery.

http://hondacanada.ca/HPower/Models/ModelOverview?L=E&Type=SnowBlowers&Series=HS928&Model=HS928TC

From there, I went to the Yamaha dealer in the next town, and he's agreed to take the same amount off the brand new Yamaha YS929J, and free delivery.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/images/generators/2011_SB_YS928J_l.jpg

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?section=td&model=3537&addBrochure=td

That's what I'm agonizing over tonight.

The Honda HS928TC would be $3199. and tx. (roughly $3700. tax incl.)
The Yamaha YS928J is $3799 after a $200 discount, plus $50 dealer transport. He'll deliver it free. $4344. tax incl.

The Yamaha has all the bells and whistles, including electric 12vdc start (battery), the electronic chute-control, gas-assist auger-lift, dual-stage auger with "shock-protector" system, and electro-magnetic drive, and 6.7 litre gas-tank with fuel gauge. TCI ignition system (whatever that means)

The Honda weighs 234 lbs,,,,,,, the Yammie weighs 373 lbs.

What say you wise ones?????

I suppose I should throw the Honda HS1132TC in that mix. It would be roughly in between the two I've mentioned $3599.+tax. $4100 Tax. Inc.

Lets start a poll

I'm for Blue! It's the cheapest only 11.67 dollars per pound

aa335, I don't know if you saw my edit, which I did while you were replying to my post. I'm throwing the Honda HS1132TC in that mix. I'm presuming the dealer will give me the same $200 discount on that machine .

drifter wrote:

Honestly I'd go for the Yamaha at that close a price, it's a lifetime and will be worth nearly what you bought it for even years down the road.

That said the Hondas are great machines. I'd get whichever one I could steer the best and would do my driveway the easiest.

I would narrow it down between the 28" models. I'd would go with Yamaha 28 because it has more features, more exclusive. The quietness is a plus too. But then again, if it's my money, I'd go with the Honda 928TCD. It's cheaper, more compact and lighter, has straight forward ergonomics. Easier to sell later on

The Honda dealer gave me the discount on the HS928TC, not the TCD. If he applied the same discount on the TCD model, it would be the same price as the Yamaha YS928J, but I believe the Yamaha is the better machine among those two. Pretty close, but the Yamaha is quieter. The Yammie also weighs 130 lbs more. Built like a tank.

Does the Yamaha have independent track steering?

aa335 wrote:
Not that I know of. Never occurred to me to ask, but I'm reasonably certain that this option is only available on the larger machines.

The honda and yammie are fairly equally regarded snowblowers.
At almost $650 less, I would go with the Honda. The only difference is it doesn't come with electric start but they are easy peasy to start anyways so that wouldn't concern me.

Yes, I realize that, and in fact, that is why I'm looking at the TC models, rather than the electric-start models. The Yamaha just looked like a heavier build all around. You have to see it, and hear it, to really appreciate it. Probably the first and last snow-thrower I'll ever need to buy. Every inch of it is impressive, even the cables are impressive, lol..

Could you get $200 off the hs1132tc?
That would make it $200 less than your quote on the 9hp yamaha, and it would clear the snow a lot quicker... The blowing capacity on the 9hp yamaha is 50 tons/hour and the 11hp honda is 72 tons/hour so I think that would be a much better value for your dollar. The yamaha is an awesome machine though!

drifter wrote:
130 additional pounds without independent track steering or differential would be a deal breaker for me.   Perhaps you should try to steer it and see if manageable. 

My HS1132 is already approximately 280lbs wet and with snow cab.  I wouldn't want it to be any heavier with the fixed axle.

Actually, the Honda HS1132TC, and the Yamaha YS928J will cost the same,,, if the Honda dealer gives me the same discount that he did on the HS928TC.

The added throughput of the 1132 Honda is definitely attractive, but it seems a LOT noisier than the Yamaha.

I had no trouble moving the Yamaha around, in the showroom. Maybe just the way the weight was distributed. Even with a full gas-tank, I doubt it would affect things, since the gas-tank is centered over the tracks. I'm also fairly husky, roughly 225 lbs. so maybe that helps.

They both have a lot going for them. It's a tough call.

drifter wrote:
Oh I was going by the msrp of the hs1132tc which is $3799.99 and then take $200 off that making it that much less than your yamaha quote. Your dealer must be listing them higher than msrp.

giocam wrote:
You're right. For some reason, I thought the HS1132TC was $3999. It's actually $3599. if I get the same discount, so $250 cheaper than the Yamaha.

At this point, it's no longer about the money I guess. The HS 1132TCS with 120v electric start, would be $$50 more than the Yamaha. Looks like it's down to "speed vs comfort". The Yammie can also be operated with one hand.

We rarely get storms over 6-8", so that might enter into the equation. Mind you, we do get the occasional 12-15" storm. Last winter was exceptional. Record-breaking lack of precipitation. Most of the big storms, blew by to the south of us. It barely snowed after January.

drifter wrote:

Hey, if that is all you want then find yourself a 1960s Ariens.

Those can be operated with no hands. :)

Honestly though, I think all modern snow blowers have some way of locking the 2 levers together now.

As far as dollars, cents & coolness factor go, I'd be leaning towards the Yamaha. I think you'd be better served down the road with a smaller more manueverable machine rather than a larger machine (especially with your back condition). Your snowfall amounts are similar to what we get in my area and I used a HS624 for 10 years without any problems (taking smaller bites during larger storms is the key). You could argue the same point against the Yamaha 928 for that very reason - at 373 lbs. that is one heavy a$$ machine compared to about 250 lbs. for a Honda 928TA. Another check mark in the 928 column is the versatility of being able to clear smaller walkways and tighter areas that a wider bucket might be too unwieldy to manage. IMO the 928 offers the pefect compromise between size, power and manueverability. Besides, the 928 gives you a bit more time to play with your toy during a snowstorm!

I'm having trouble relating to the "difficult to handle" argument. I have no trouble throwing these machines around on a dry concrete floor, and I'd imagine it's even easier on snow,,, especially when the machine is in motion.

The only thing I didn't care for on the Yamaha YS928J was the track lock-pins. They're difficult to re-insert. There's probably a simple trick to it. Aside from that, I love this machine. The 6.7 liter gas-tank can have you running a long time between refills, and the fuel gauge tells you at a glance, how much fuel you have. The reduced noise-level allows me to use the machine even late at night, without fear of disturbing the neighbours. That's a big plus if I come home late, and my driveway entrance is plowed in. I can't park on the road.

The Honda HS1132TC is much noisier, but more powerful, and almost 100 lbs lighter.

Either way, I'll probably have occasions where I'll say to myself, "I wish I had bought the other machine". These are both wonderful machines. The Yamaha is the Lexus of snowblowers, and the Honda is the Hummer.

All I have left to do today is, confirm that the Honda dealer will give me the same discount on the HS1132TC, or the TCS. If he says no, I think I'm going with the Yamaha. Either way, I'm buying a snowblower  TODAY.

Can't go wrong with either machine.
Here is a video of the yamaha at work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6CaB4npNug
Not much snow in the video so you can't really see what it can do though.

Here is the Honda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE4Ke2OFg3E

That's not the same Yamaha. That video is for the 6hp Yamaha, the YS624.

drifter wrote:
It is possible the tracks on the showroom were greased with silicone.  They slide around easier and does not leave rubber marks on the floor.

Outside of the showroom and on the driveway, especially on slippery surface such as compacted snow or ice, your footing determines whether you have enough traction to turn it.  In addition, when you're close to sides of the house or cars, you are closer to the snowblower, which gives you less leverage.  130 lbs additional over the HS928 is significant, I don't know what secret sauce Yamaha have to make that thing easier to turn.  But unless I can see how, I'd go with my gut feel on this one.

One other thing to consider is the bucket width, the best setup is to have the bucket /skid shoes just as wide as the outside of the tracks or wheels.  When the bucket is wider, when the skid shoes catch on a surface irregularities, it will want to turn the snowblower off course.  Unfortunately, that means only the 24" bucket is as wide as the side of the tires.  For these reasons, I don't like snowblowers that are larger than 30", it wanders around a lot more and takes more effort to counter act it.

At the showroom, the Honda HS1132 is significantly more impressive, macho looking compared to the HS928.  It comes with a price, it takes more manhandling to operate it.

Hope I've given you enough to consider before dropping $4K.

giocam wrote:

That video does not do justice to the caliber of that Yamaha.  Not enough snow, operator does not have good control of speed, direction, and chute.

drifter wrote:
I know. I can't find a video of the new 9hp yamaha, but its performance is going to be the same as the 9hp honda which you can readily find videos of on youtube. The 9hp in both are extremely impressive but the 11hp blow them away. The 11hp honda performs almost comparably to the 12hp yamaha which will cost you over 6k with taxes!

aa335 wrote:
That's the wrong video. That video is the 6hp Yamaha, not the YS928J.

Here's the only video I could find on the YS928J, and for some reason, part of the video has been blacked out, so you don't see it in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf7wbGr2Wt8&feature=related

Here's the Yamaha 1132

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH2fnu1GRNY&feature=related

drifter wrote:

They didn't say "eh" enough in the video. So it probably wasn't filmed in or near Montreal or Quebec province.

Great unit but it did ride up on that banking a bit.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
At the speed they hit that hard-packed EOD, I'm not surprised. That machine weighs over 542 lbs too.

drifter wrote:

No doubt it would chew it up. My Toro would but I'd have to go slowly. That Yamaha is an amazing machine, that's for sure.

OMG. I just heard from the guy that used to do my driveway. His price is lower than he used to charge in 2004. He's offered to do my driveway for $300./year, possibly $320.,,,,,, I'm crushed. This guy has a HUGE fricken tractor, with a monster blower that has 3  rows of augers.as I recall. Takes him roughly 5 minutes to do the whole yard.

I gotta confess, that after all this research, I have "new toy fever" and I'm chomping at the bit.

Good thing it's not snowing yet.  You got some time consider the purchase.

That snow removal price quote is quite attractive actually, provided he's consistent and timely.

He's always been very prompt and efficient, so no problem there. Seems his business has grown considerably since we last worked together. He now has four of those huge tractors, and he's now into excavation and landscaping. I went to his house to give him a cheque this afternoon, but his wife now handles the contracts, and she has to come and measure my yard tomorrow. That estimate I had earlier, might change. Better not be too high, or there may be a new toy in my driveway after all. I should have the final price by tomorrow afternoon.

drifter wrote:

I had a guy who did my driveway, but he'd often be late, do it wrong, pile up the snow 12 feet high. It did not work out for us and because it's a plow his skid shoes are set roughly an inch high so that means we always had an inch of snow after he plowed. Plus all the snow got built up in 2 places because you can't move it to the sides with a plow and then I'd have to shovel out the driveway in front of the garage because he wouldn't backdrag. So that was 1.5 hours of shoveling after a bad storm to clear out the stuff he'd plow up to the door. He'd usually only plow once per storm unless it was really bad. Needless to say I'm done relying on other people to do my driveway. Oh and sometimes he'd come after we had to get to work and we had no way to get out.

So I'll gladly do it myself to avoid all that hassle. Hopefully the guy you are hiring will not be the same way. But as you have said you are retired, so plan on being done last. You might end up wishing you had gotten the snowblower.

drifter wrote:

I had a guy who did my driveway, but he'd often be late, do it wrong, pile up the snow 12 feet high. It did not work out for us and because it's a plow his skid shoes are set roughly an inch high so that means we always had an inch of snow after he plowed. Plus all the snow got built up in 2 places because you can't move it to the sides with a plow and then I'd have to shovel out the driveway in front of the garage because he wouldn't backdrag. So that was 1.5 hours of shoveling after a bad storm to clear out the stuff he'd plow up to the door. He'd usually only plow once per storm unless it was really bad. Needless to say I'm done relying on other people to do my driveway. Oh and sometimes he'd come after we had to get to work and we had no way to get out.

So I'll gladly do it myself to avoid all that hassle. Hopefully the guy you are hiring will not be the same way. But as you have said you are retired, so plan on being done last. You might end up wishing you had gotten the snowblower.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Before I bought my own home, my wife and I rented a house from a very nice couple for a few years. They had a plow guy come every storm and plow our (their) driveway. I never realized how much damage a plow does to your driveway and surrounding areas until after the snow melted away that season. These guys can't remember the layout of every home and the landscaping took a beating.

Long story short... this aspect and the one Steve_Cebu layed out would easily justify the purchase - that and not being reliant on someone else to clear you out. I've got 150' just to get to the EOD and then deal with whatever the town plow guy left behind. If I ever shoveled it once because I had to, I'd make sure I'd never have to shovel it again! Plus I have a bunch of walkways/runways leading to the back of my property, woodpiles, sheds, etc... that represents about 1/2 the amount of area I need to keep clear.

It's definitely your call to hire someone or do it yourself - I'm sure you'll make the right decision when it's all said and done.

This contractor used to do my driveway for the previous owner of the house. He did so for 17 years, so he knows the property well. He's always been very prompt, back-drags where it's required, and has that monster blower, which doesn't leave me with huge snowbanks. I was always 100% satisfied with this guy. He's also just down the road from me, about 1 1/2 mi away. This guy used to do my driveway for the first few years I lived here, so I know him well.

When the other guy who gave me the freebies came with the huge highway plow, he had only the bucket (no blower), and that created a big problem insofar as snowbanks limiting  visibility when trying to exit my driveway. He did eventually push back those banks a few times, but the corners of the huge bucket on his machine often dug out huge chunks of turf, even though it was frozen. He also left deep ruts from the tread-marks of his tires. It was so bad that I had to ask him to do only the mouth of the driveway, and I would do the rest by shovel.

This saga is still not over though, until his wife hands me the final figure. If she gets greedy, I'm going ahead with the purchase of the snow-thrower. If gas prices rise again when the economy starts to turn around, those snow removal contracts will follow suit.

That said, I also went to the local drivers' liscence bureau today, and started the process that will give me the necessary paperwork to cross the US border. Plattsburgh New York is less than 2 hours away. It'll probably take a few weeks to complete because I need a new birth certificate, but I should have it well before the snow flies. I'd save at least $500. on a new Honda HS1132

In the meantime, I'm still looking for a nearly-new still warranteed snow-thrower, and some of the dealers I spoke with are calling me. This thing ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

Update;

The contractors' wife hasn't shown up yet to measure my driveway and finalize the price.

Still searching used machines. I've found a 2007 Honda HS1132TC  for $2450. and a 2004 for $2300 Also, I just found a still warranteed 2009 HS 1132.TC for $3100. This is a private sale, so no tax. This would save me $1234. compared to buying new. VERY attractive.

Tic toc tic toc,,,,,,,,,

drifter wrote:

Don't wait too long or someone else will scoop it up before you.....

I have no choice until I get the final price from my snow-removal contractor. The news should come this afternoon/evening.

Turns out that the owner of the 2009 Honda 1132 has a bunch of them. Apparently, they were originally bought for the Vancouver Olympic games, and were never used. This guy bought them all, and shipped them here to Quebec. He even has the big HS1236. I asked if these machines were originally purchased as "commercial use", which would mean the warranty is now expired. He said they were purchased as "private", with a 2 year warranty, and the warranty is valid for one more year. Hmmmm.

Slight complication, The snow thrower is roughly 70 miles away. I have a very good 4x8 utility trailer. I sold the car that had the trailer hitch, and have to get a new hitch installed on my new car. The trailer hitch is a special order item, and the dealer says it will take 1 1/2 to 2 weeks to arrive. The snow thrower guy says he'll wait, if I give him a deposit. This bothers me a bit, since I'm not certain I'm protected. Man, these things can get complicated .

Borrow or rent something?

I just called a rental place. Ford Econoline, 1 day, 200 kilometers. $115. plus gas. Not bad. I've got another possibility that I'm working on. A friend has an F-150. He's a long-haul trucker. If he's home, I can get him to pick it up. Hard to get a hold of this guy at times.

If need be, I'd send the snow-thrower owner a deposit via InterAc, from my account to his. I have no idea if and how I'm protected though.

drifter wrote:

Cash on the barrelhead is the only way to go. Otherwise you might never see your money again. Also buying sight unseen is very unwise when it comes to used stuff. Best bet is to see if it's what you want in person, give a deposit and get a receipt and then make plans to drive back with it another time. Renting a truck to buy something you haven't seen and sending money to someone you haven't met in person is very risky. I wouldn't do it.

My bank says I'm unprotected. I could create a paper-trail by asking the vendor to email me the machines' serial number, along with details, and his account information. Still, I'd have to resort to the court if a problem arises. That's a no-go for me.

I'm still working on my friends' F-150 solution, but nobody's home.

If I get this machine, and it is as described by the owner. I'll pass on the snow-removal contract. As I said earlier, this would save me $1,234. compared to buying new from a Canadian dealer. Most of that is tax,,, over $600. worth. This changes the math considerably, as I should still easily get $2400. for the machine, 5-6 years from now, judging by the current "used" market..

LMAO< this is getting comical. It seems he's sold all of his 1132's from that batch he had. He has his own 1132 at home, but it's a 2008. He has decided he's now going to keep the big 1336 ($8.300. machine)  that he was going to sell, so now, he's willing to sell me his personal 2008 for $2700. He's says it's in mint condition, and has always been stored in his heated garage.

We've come to an agreement about holding that machine for a few days. He has not advertised that machine. As soon as I can make transportation arrangements, it's mine. I'd be doing the transaction in person. My buddy with the Ford Ranger, is measuring his box as I type this. He has a Leer cap. My fingers are crossed.

drifter wrote:

That smells fishy to me, he sold those all units mighty quickly. I just hope he's not trying a bait and switch like some people do. I had a Leer cap, chances are it's going to have to come off unless you lay the machine down on it's side. The handles are going to be too high I think.

drifter wrote:

I don't know - this scenario sounds plausible to me. If I was able to sell a bunch of those 1132's and had the chance for a 1336 on the cheap, I'd probably go for it as well. If this guy likes OPE like the rest of us, he most likely did take good care of his 1132. Drifter will get a chance to check it out before he places his $$$ down so it'll be his call if he feels it's worth it or not.

If I had to pay 15% or so tax on every new purchase, I'd never buy new!

FrankMA wrote:

Granted teh taxes are excessive but it just seems convinienet that the guy was all sold out so quickly. I'm sure drifter will check it out and make a good decision.

Caveat Emptor is all I'm saying.

Oh, you can be VERY sure I'll check it out thoroughly before plunking my money down. According to the website where he advertised these machines, his current ad first appeared 13 days ago. I don't know how many he had. I didn't ask.

My buddys' Ranger box has an opening of 36" high as I recall. According to Honda's website, that machines' overall height is 40 1/2". Something weird there. That might be shipping height (crate), because I'm quite certain the handles are not as high as a standard kitchen counter, which is 36".

I can rent an Econoline, but I don't have a ramp, and I'd need to find someone who can help me off-load it. At 270 lbs for that machine, and my bad back, this should be interesting to say the least. In the morning, I'll call around to see if I can find a cube-van with a ramp. My "trucker" buddy must be off on a trip. Nobody home, and I can't get him on his cell phone.

Well, looks like my trucker buddy is on a long-haul trip. He just called from Mississauga Ontario (near Toronto), and is on his way west to Thunder Bay Ontario. That's out. I have another guy to call in the morning, and if that doesn't work out, I'll rent a truck if I can find one. Small town here, so not much available I'm afraid.

I'm hoping to go see the machine tomorrow evening, or Friday morning.

Since this will be my first snow thrower, what do you recommend I look for when doing the inspection?

Trouts2 has a good link in his signature.

Here is the full site:
http://www.kedawei.com/snowblower.htm

Here is the page about looking at older machines:
http://www.kedawei.com/Snowblower/kicking_the_tires.htm

drifter wrote:

Get a couple of 2" x 10" x 8' boards that you can use as ramps. Even a piece of 3/4" plywood will work. I've used this method before and had no problems, especially if you back up to a small incline or little hill. Doing this reduces the angle substantially and makes loading/unloading a snap.

FrankMA wrote:

Good advice FrankMA, the boards are pretty cheap and since these units have tracks he should have no problems using boards. He could probably get away with using 6 foor boards. One 12 foot cut in half. The Honda tracks climb with tenacity. Shorter boards and backing up to a hill should work. I'd be leary about the plywood even at 3/4" as it will bow if it's too long.

   How about transporting it in your car?     Blowers can fit sideways into many trunks.  They rest on the bottom of the trunk lid and "fall" into the trunk, actually lean to the rear of the trunk.  I've transported about 100 this way.  The biggest has been 28 inch.  I've hauled about 4 MTD 10hp track machines that way. 

   I use blankets between the machine and car and tie off the machine by the trunk supports.

If I'm lucky in about 10 minutes I'll be picking up a Honda 5.5hp track which should easily fit in the trunk. 

I don't know how the Hondas are put together, but the old Ariens only have 2 bolts holding the front and back halves together.  Ok, add 2 more bolts for the belt cover and a hair pin for the crank rod.

The drive section would probably easily fit in a truck and then the scoop in the back seat or in the trunk next to the tractor drive assembly.  Splitting it in half would also help with the lifting/loading.

There's no way this snow-thrower will fit in my trunk. The trunk lid is wayyyy to short. (Acura RL 3.5)  I'll most likely rent a truck.

As for a make-shift ramp, that shouldn't be a big deal. Boards can flex at different rates though, but I can always wedge something under the mid-point of the boards, to keep them from flexing excessively. A set of spare tires for example. I don't have any boards though, so I'd have to order some, and that takes time.

I'm working on yet another solution. I just called a guy who transports seasonal equipment (golf carts, etc). He's going to call me back with a price, later this afternoon.

Ask the guy you are buying from if he has the means to deliver it...

drifter wrote:
You don't need anything fancy. Just go to Home Depot, Lowes or any lumber yard and get a couple of 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's. They even sell a little gizmo that screws onto the end of the board that will kind of clip the board onto the edge of the floorboards so they don't slide down.

drifter wrote:

If you go to HD and get a 2'x12' board and have them cut it in half at no cost you will have a 6' ramp that will work for anything except a Pickup truck.

Just curious as to how much they wanted to clear your property for a year? Did you ever get that estimate?

I just solved my transport issue. I went to the local U-Haul guy, and when I told him I only need the truck for 3 hours, he said; "I'll go pick up and deliver that snow-blower for you, and I'll do it for $100. Thank God for small towns.

I'm off to the bank to get a certified cheque.

Last detail; I'm wondering if I should just take the chance, and go with the transport guy in the morning. Otherwise, I'd have to go inspect the machine tonight, and that's a three hour or more project. Worst-case scenario, I don't want the snow-blower after inspection, and I'm out $100.

OK, snow removal contractor just called. $320. plus tax. Roughly $368. Payable in three installments, Nov, Jan, Feb. That sure is tempting too.

I might do both for this year. I could use the snow-blower to clear areas where the contractor can't go, or at least clear an area to get my car off the street if I come home during a storm, and the contractor hasn't shown up yet.

The way those Honda 1132's sell on the used market, I could resell it  in a year, and still be out only $100. or so.

drifter wrote:

Kinda weird to have an awesome snowblower and not use it. It's easy to clean the driveway. Save the money and do it yourself. Or just have the guy do it. I'd probably buy a single stage if I had someone clearing for me. But that didn't work out well for me so I do it myself now.

Well, I am happy to report that I am now the proud owner of a 2008 Honda HS1132TC

You won't believe this, but I'm 99% certain it's snowing here. I couldn't believe it. It's melting on contact with the ground, and it certainly doesn't feel that cold out there, but what I saw in my headlights was definitely not rain.

drifter wrote:
Well, its about time.  For a few days, I thought you're going to contract out the snow removal.

Welcome to the H owner club.  Once you get comfortable with that beautiful piece of machinery, I can introduce you to a turbo kit that will allow you to put your snow on your neighbor's driveway.  :)

aa335 wrote:
LMAO AA335 ,

I can hardly wait to give it a whirl. Boy oh boy, it's been quite a ride since my first post here a few weeks ago. I learned a helluva lot about snow-throwers, in pretty short order, and in large part, I owe it to the great advice and guidance I got here, from peoplesuch as yourself. Thank you VERY MUCH for all your help.

I still have some decisions to make, but I've satisfied my craving for a new toy, and at least, I'm now in the game at an affordable price. The previous owner in fact, was offered $100. more today. than what I paid him. He had given his word though, and I respect the fact that he honoured that commitment.

If I had purchased this machine new here in Quebec, it would have cost me $4,370. after taxes. I saved $1670.. and in my books, that's not too shabby.

drifter wrote:
WHEW!!! Thought you were going to go with the plow guy there for a while. Once you start using your new toy, you'll be praying to the Snow Gods for a good 12"+ of accumulation - Welcome to Club Honda!

drifter wrote:

Congratulations on your new Honda!  Nice machines i'm sure you'll enjoy many years with it.

Thanks FrankMA and Steve,

We just off-loaded the machine from the truck, and I'm going to get out there to polish it up a bit. It's been sitting in the guys' garage for almost two years, and it's a bit dusty. There a bit of rust on the augers and the impeller, and I'm not certain that it would be worth the effort to re-paint them. The paint would probably come off anyway, the first time I go through some EOD. The rest of the machine is pristine. The paint inside the chute, as well as in the bucket, is perfectly intact, with no scratches or exposed metal. There is one tiny dent on the top-rear of the bucket, and that's about it. The tracks look brand-new. The crank-handle "sleeve" for the chute is missing however. The crank itself is fine, it's just that black "sleeve" on the handle that's missing. It starts first pull, and runs smoothly.

I might add a few things to the machine, but I'll read the manual first. I was thinking of adding an oil drain-extension-tube, like the new Yamahas have, but I'll have to give that more thought before proceeding. An extension-tube might be vulnerable to damage.

I'm wondering if I should run any fuel addatives through it as a precaution. The guy says he stored the machine in his heated garage, and because of that, he felt that adding Stabil was unnecessary. He said he stored it with the fuel-tank full, then he shut-off the gas-line, and let the machine run until the carburetor was empty and the motor stalled.

I'm also thinking of buying a cover for this machine. Any recommendations on where and what to buy?

drifter wrote:

Sure thing, happy to help. I run Stabil in mine and I think it's great. We probably get more thaw and freeze than you do but so much gas today has water in it because of the 10% ethanol that I wouldn't run my snowblower without it. Stabil is great stuff and you don't use much. I just dump som into the 4 gallons I get and 4 gallons easily lasts me the entire winter. I might go 3 gallons this year.

Also when you get it hot and then it gets cold you get condensation so you do get water in it that way. I paid $10 for the Stabil at the local Honda Dealer and I have plenty of it left for this year.

No idea about a cover since mine is stored indoors in an unheated garage. I'm sure you can find one on Craigslist or for $$$$ at the local Honda dealer.

drifter wrote:

The rust on the augers and impeller is going to happen no matter what you do. I usually spray either furniture polish or WD40 inside the bucket and chute before I use it to keep snow from sticking to the metal. This also helps to keep any rust at bay. I would drain that 2 y/o fuel out of the tank and add it to the almost full gas tank of your car or truck. I would not use any fuel over 3 months old that has not been treated with some sort of stablizer. Stabile or Seafoam are 2 great fuel stabilzers that work very well. The tank only holds about a gallon and a half so adding it to the fuel tank of your vehicle won't hurt anything.

Where are you going to store your new toy? If inside your garage or shed, I'd just use an old sheet or something similar that can breathe. I've seen some weather-proof Ariens snowblower covers at Home Depot that are breathable and designed for outside storage situations. A tarp or sheet of plastic can trap moisture so I would not suggest going that route. I store my snowblower in my garage so I can't comment either way on how the breathable covers perform.

FrankMA,

I'm probably going to store it outside, next to my back door, at least for a little while. My garage is crammed FULL with woodworking machinery, and I'd have trouble squeezing another drill-bit in there. I also find that snow is less prone to stick to metal, if the blower is the same temperature as the outside air. I'm probably going to build a storage shed for it, as well as my other OPE, patio stuff, tires, etc. I've been procrastinating too long about that already.

If I don't build the shed this Fall, I'll probably park the snow-thrower on a wood pallet, to keep the machine off the ground slightly, and promote air-circulation, while avoiding water accumulation / puddles, etc. I'll keep looking for a cover. My dealer wants $115. plus tax for one, yet I've seen the Honda covers on eBay for $61.99 and shipping. Problem is, they advertise shipping only in the lower 48 states, and I'm in Quebec. I'll contact them to see if they'll consider shipping here. In the meantime, I'll find something to shelter it from the elements. A generic cover should do for a while.

Go to a krown dealer and buy a can of the stuff and spray the metal down with that before the season, and you can re-coat it during the season as well. Then after the season clean the machine up and krown it again and throw a cover over it, this will keep the rust as bay for sure. My brother's 6 year old Honda literally looks brand new doing this. You could also use rust check which you can buy from crappy tire but krown is supposed to be better.

Thanks GIOCAM, there's a Canadian-Tire here in town. I'll look for that spray, and they may also sell covers. I'm sure I also have some tarps somewhere in the house.

Rust check is good but if you can get krown go for that. There are dealers everywhere in Canada so there should be one near you.

http://www.krown.com/#products/aerosol/

I think I'm going to assemble a parts and service kit, so it's handy if I ever need it. The previous owner gave me two shear-pins, and I'll get some oil, transmission fluid, and was thinking of getting some lubricant for the cables. The chute-deflector cable is a bit "stiff". The previous owner says "don't lube the cable, because you need a certain amount of resistance when the snow hits the deflector" He said the force of ejection would tend to lift the deflector. Hmmmm.

drifter wrote:

I bought a bottle of Honda Hydro Fluid when I purchased my HS624 tens years ago and I never opened it because I never needed to top off my resevoir. It took me a little while to figure out that the temperature can alter the level you see in the resevoir cup but once it gets warmed up it's right where it should be. I would recommend that you keep about a dozen shear pins on-hand so you don't have to go back and forth to the dealer. You may not use any in a given year and you may use several but it's good to know you have them if you need them. The EOD can produce some ususal foreign objects that will create this situation. I have one impeller shear pin that I bought but have never had to replace that one.

I don't know if I just got lucky but I never had any issues with mine. It always fired right up and performed as it was designed - very reliable and consistent. I hope my new to me HS928TA is as good to me as my old 624 had been.

Thanks FrankMA,

Frank, have you got a Honda cover for your machine? Have you ever actually seen one, or inspected one? Knowing Honda, it's probably really well made and durable. I bought a generic cover for my motorcycle, and it fell apart at the seams,,,, literally.

drifter wrote:

I store my machine in my unheated garage. I've only seen the Honda cover on-line but I would also assume it's a well constructed and designed cover. I'm a believer in the old adage, "you get what you pay for".

Here's one at jackssmallengines.com

Part# 06928768020AH Our Price: $61.19

Yeah, I agree that you usually get what you pay for. Buy once, cry once.

I was just looking at that very site you linked me too. Basic price looks pretty good, but they want $25.99 to ship it here. I'm not sure why, because I'm closer to them than many of the lower 48 states. Hmmmm. It sure would be nice to see one in-the-flesh before ordering.

Cool idea. ;-)) I like that cart too.

Thanks aa335

Oh yeah,,,,, I cheated, and scrolled down.

drifter wrote:
So is that what you call it up north, eh?  Don't you mean carts?  There are two of them.  Around here, it's called a ....ah...never mind.

Rhymes with "cart", starts with "T" ???

I don't see how it rhymes with cart, must be French.

aa335 wrote:

I think he means the word that has a "W" in it.

Still why did they draw bathing suits on those lovely ladies, why that's just not "au natural"

Still not getting it.  Need another clue. 

TART.......Did  I win???

Pat,

Can I buy a vowel?

FrankMA wrote:
FrankMA, you've just won a date with the lovely Vanna White. Those other two young ladies, are coming with me.

drifter wrote:

That's a bit older term for that I believe. Do they still use the term "Birds" in the UK?

drifter wrote: When and where can I collect my prize???

I found this post, as I too am looking at snowblowers.  I had my heart set on a Honda 724 TCD, however was wondering if anyone had any experience with Yamaha's?  They look quite similar and are priced a little better.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/index.php?group=G

Thanks

Shawn

"The Troy-Bilts' "PowerMore" 357cc engine is manufactured in China, by the same folks who manufacture Harley-Davidson engines."

Is this fact?  HD engines are built in China?   Would it be possible to provide a link to where you got this info?  I'd appreciate it.

drifter wrote:
drifter, I've kept my MTD outside (behind the shed, under a plastic tarp, up on 4" cement blocks) for the past two summers with no signs of corrosion or any other damage.  The tarp keeps the rain off but is at least a foot off the ground to ensure lots of circulation. I'm a bit skeptical about an oem cover that would touch the ground and create a little microclimate inside. Can you say mushrooms.

Cheers

borat wrote:

LOL, what a bunch of BS. Even Canadians know that H-D motors are assembled in Milwaukee, WI.  Every time we make a NFL road trip to see the Bears or Packers we make sure to stop in for factory tours at Kohler (twice), Miller (twice) and H-D (once).  Buy domestic or from your good neighbours!

NotMoneyGuy wrote:
After reading that, I did some searching and found this site where they stated that they make HD engine components.  I find that a little unsettling although, not unbelievable.  Here's a link that implied Powermore having some sort of affiliation with Harley Davidson. 

http://movingsnow.com/2010/09/powermore-craftsman-troy-bilt-yardman-cub-cadet-ohv-winterized-engines/

I guess I stand corrected and apologies are in order but "This manufacture also works with other brands you know and trust like Harley Davidson to deliver high quality engine components." is kind of vague. And scary.

NotMoneyGuy wrote:
You can rest assured that Harley Davidson would not want to publicize to what extent they use foreign content in their machines, especially Chinese, since their engine building reputation is commonly associated with mass produced crap.  Which I don't entirely agree with. 

The HD cult is built on the illusion that the machine is an American thoroughbred and that's the line Harley Davidson feeds to their customers, whom in most  instances don't do their homework.  As a result, they swallow it, hook, line and sinker and ride away on a bike that is anything but.  

NotMoneyGuy wrote:
There,,, I fix't it fer ya.

Thanks Drifter. But I know that I did see them making H-D motors at W Capitol Dr & Zoo Fwy in Wauwatosa (Milwaukee), WI. Cheers!

Yeah, I  have no doubt, but unfortunately things change quickly these days. Every day, more and more "stuff" is being manufactured overseas. Funny though, even though the costs drop like crazy for the business people, the prices keep rising for the poor sap paying for many of the goods. Gordon Gekko  ( Michael Douglas / Wall Street ) is alive and well I guess.

Well, I finally fired-up my Honda HS1132TC today. We didn't get a lot of snow, maybe an inch or so, but I did scrape it all into a long snow-bank, and the lil' red bulldozer tossed that heavy wet snow and slush like there was no tomorrow. It's going to seem strange this year, not having eight foot tall snowbanks along the perimeter of my driveway.