Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Most sub $1000 snowblowers have 12" augers, usually with 12" impellers. Ariens has 14" augers and impellers on their Deluxe, Platinum, and Professional lines; Simplicity/Deere/Snapper have 14" augers on their large frame and professional models with 12" impellers, Toro has 14" augers with 12" impellers on their PowerMax series. Honda uses 14" augers on its larger models. MTD's Cub Cadet and Sears Professional lines have 16" augers and impellers.  However the Husqvarna Crown has 12" augers of a different design.

What is the advantage of a larger auger?

Bigger is better. Everyone knows that.

There are limitless advantages with a bigger auger. It can gather up more snow, allow the snowblower to go faster, just to name two.   However, all of which becomes issues to DavidNJ since it's too big and heavy for DavidNJ and wife to lift the nose and too expensive to afford anyways. So that leaves him with a shovel, an abused MTD snowblower, and 200+ post count.

Really now, everything becomes an issue to you.  You are coming up with more issues than solutions?  When are you going to resolve your issues and get it done?

Taller the auger, Taller the bucket... With a taller bucket it will handle deeper snow falls without collapsing over the bucket onto the engine as much.. Friiy

aa335 wrote:

DavidNJ will not admit that the Toro is the best for his wife and himself although he has basically posted that is does everything he wants and is easy for his wife to use. My wife can easily use it and she's tiny. So he makes up problems with auger size and impellers. I think he'd rather be contrary other than pick what he already knows is the best machine for his needs. But he probably has just enough money for a new shovel and is a dreamer about buying a machine I mean how much snow do they actually get in New Jersey anyway? He'd be fine with a Toro single stage 2 stroke if he could afford it.

His solutions are in front of his face, he just refuses to see them. You can only help a blind man so much, after that he's going to go his own way, in this case off a cliff. Too much pissing in the wind if you ask me.

friiy wrote:

The Ariens and the Simplicity with 14" augers have 21" tall scoops, the Husqvarna with a 12" auger has a 23" tall scoop.

DavidNJ wrote:
Hmmm... is there a point?  What does your binary decision diagram tells to do next?  Come up with a new issue?  Gather more data?  Mess with SteveCebu's?

aa335 wrote:

The point should have been to say why a bigger auger would be better. And this isn't that much bigger, about 16%.  Really big blowers can have multiple rows of augers covering the whole height. Ariens uses the same 14" for their Deluxe, Platinum, and Pro yet the first two have 21" scoops and the Pro 23".  Some scoops, such as the Honda and 722 Toro or exposed for the first couple of incnhes on top. Presumably then the design is the snow above the auger falls into in. Thse that are squared on top would seem to be saying this is as tall as they can handle.

Bigger or smaller is irrelevant.  Why don't you spend some time reviewing the requirements list that you posted and see how many of those requirements can be met with one machine?  I bet you there isn't one.  No one makes a snowblower just for YOU!

Well, what are you going to do next?  It's called compromise and balance.  Narrow down to 2 or 3 machines with the features/performance that mostly fits your requirements, or your spouse.  Discuss it with your spouse, present the costs to your spouse, and don't discuss issues.  You're the problem solver and she expect you already taken care of issues and not waste her time.  And finally, pick one that you both agree on.

Hypothetically, if she says there's no way she's going use a 2 stage and it's too expensive, maybe you should start your research on a single stage.  Go to the "other" forum and ask questions.  They are a fun bunch of folks, lots of Honda, Ariens, Yamaha, and Toro members.  They are very helpful, direct to the point, and sometimes provides a few laughs.  There are some of those members in this forum too.   :)

Not saying that you should go there just yet.  Adjust your attitude, relax, don't call people Democrats or Republicans, avoid religious remarks, respect the elders, and you fit just right in.  Political affiliations have not been proven to correlate with snowblower brand purchase, so don't mention it, you'll look like a clown with an opinion.  Like I say, they are a fun bunch of folks, but have little tolerance for idiots, and will make mincemeat out of stupidity. 

I know what davids problem is.He's using the wrong formula.If he would just realize that a squared +b squared truly =c squared,he would know what snowblower to buy........

I'm down to two snowblowers, and the auger, both design and size, is a significant difference. There are others--handlebars are slightly different, chute direction/deflection controls, price, differential, and one has hydrostatic drive--but the auger could be the deciding factor if one had a decisive advantage or disadvantage.

mikiewest wrote:

Easy as pie.

I think I would build my own at this point with the welder... Mine would have 2 impellers, both with rubber kits on them, --and lasers... Friiy

Judging from the responses, no one has any insight into impeller size?

Is that going to be a 2 stage water pump?

DavidNJ wrote:

Someone among us do know but he's not giving away the secret sauce for free.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

I once did live in NJ and got along fine with a Toro single stage 2 stroke. They're great on wet slush, NJ gets lots of that.

As for the original question "How Big Should an Auger Be?" I strongly recommend, based on many years of experience, that it be almost as long as the bucket is wide, but not longer than the width of the bucket.

Bill_H wrote:

Can't believe you gave away that trade secret for nothing.  I'd hold out for at least a quarter.

Amen, it is what it is.  Pass me the beer nuts.

On a side note, a little birdie to me that DavidNJ is now a reluctant owner of  bare bones Sno-Tek 28" snowblower.  He's having meaningful discussions with the folks on the "other forum" about shovels, Husqvarna business strategy, and the future of snowblowers.

Yeah, DavidNJ is over at MTF. He won't last long there if he behaves the way he did here!

So far he's been a good boy scout, although mildly analytical.

aa335 wrote:

I had stated before that he was probably going to buy something cheap and I guess that's exactly what he did. I hope it works out for him. I'm very happy with my Toro which is now back at home after an overpriced annual dealer servicing.

Yes I saw that a mile away. Overly analytical tight wat with so much detail to evaluate without consideration to practical issues that really matters. In the end, he will buy the cheapest from a big box store after wasting people's time at the dealer.

Don't worry guys.  He is only keeping the Sno-Tek for a couple years until every snowblower has hydrostatic drive then he is going to sell it for $500 and get a hydro.

Also, now he is over analyzing his purchase and is afraid to unload the box from his SUV or open it.

Shryp wrote:

That's really pedantic of him. I mean once you've bought it then go for it and don't look back. Really the guy should have bought a Toro, it did everything he wanted it to and the cost was reasonable. Plus his wife could use it. I mean if my wife can use it then anyone who is 12 years old or older can use one, as my kids were my wifes size when they were 12, except my son he was that size when he was 8 or 9.

The cost was reasonable too. But this just shows how you can over-think something to your own detriment. Also I seriously doubt that all snowblowers will have a hydrostatic drive in 2-3 years. They cost more and are expensive to fix when they break. Nice to use tho.

DavidNJ,

Have you tried researching the used market yet? I did, and it was VERY revealing. Here in Quebec at least, you'll lose very little if you're selling a hi-quality machine like a Honda or Yamaha. I'm seeing older 8hp/28" Yamahas selling for as much as $2k. and from what I understand, Yamaha has been out of the North American market since 1995. I'm seeing used Hondas from 2002, 2003, going for $2300. and more.  Why not look for a well-maintained older machine, and you'll have everything you've been looking for (hydrostatic / hi-speed impeller / durability / reliability / performance / good re-sale value). Use it for a few years, then flip it if you want a newer machine. You'll get back most of what you paid, and all the while, you'll be working with a top-notch machine.

How tough can a New Jersey winter be on a hi-quality used machine? We get an average 10.5' of snow annually, and those machines just keep on tickin'.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
He didn't want a Toro because they reinforced the load bearing parts, remember?

Silly Steve.

I just took a look at that thread DavidNJ posted over at the other site - man that guy could over think the construction of a toothpick! Can you imagine what it was like for him to buy a car or other big ticket item? He's trying to figure out what the next incarnation (2 - 3 years down the line!) of snowblower will have for features before he decides to keep the SnoTek he already bought or buy a different brand this season.

The guy could most likely get away with a nice single stage for 95% of the storms that come his way. Better not throw that one out there or he'll start a new decision tree/mathematical equation to figure how the snow will discharge from the inadequate chute design, poor tires, lack of drive unit, gauge steel/type of plastic used in the construction, handle location, number of chute rotations, etc...on & on & on & on & on & on....

The funny thing is that he is so fixated on hydrostatic transmission and bucket rise. Not once did he mention anything about technique until asked. The analysis and conclusion were way off. I'm sure glad this guy does not work on space program or designing real things that we all use.

I can see that even with a new snowblower he won't even learn how to use it effectively but instead he will pick on insignificant details. Like someone who bought a $3000 camera and $2000 lens just to take pictures of trees and branches flapping in the wind, only to criticize how the pixels aren't sharp and the color is off. For $5000 in equipment I would ask what was the outcome? Any spectacular keepers that you can put on a wall or sell?

Shryp wrote:

Geez I'd be surprised if he even consider a unibody vehicle a with adhesives and tack welds and plastic bumpers.

He fits the classic description of an "intelligent moron". Can solve any mathematical equation/problem thrown at him but can't figure out which end of the hammer is used to hit the nail. I've seen this time and again over the years and no matter what you say or do, they will always be "right".

Shryp wrote:

Yeah silly me.

Why reinforce something to make it stronger. That's just crazy talk.

FrankMA wrote:

I'm just glad he's not insulting on here any more. But yeah he'd probably be ok with a Toro single stage. I just don't see New Jersey getting all that blasted with snow like we do in upper New Hampshire. Ah well.

aa335 is right he's really not concerned with the outcome, he just gets bogged down with details. Most of these machines will throw snow pretty far and last a long time. He said I don't know how a snowblower works. Well it's true "I just drive them". But at least mine throws snow pretty darn well even if I don't know the impellar speeds or auger size.

My neighbor with a Toro 221Q single stage can cut through 2 foot high EOD pile faster than it takes DavidNJ to figure engine RPM, ground speed, bucket weight needed just to roll his snowblower out of the garage.  He would probably start these threads:

"How fast should a snowblower be traveling while taxiing out to the driveway?" 

or

"What is the optimal turn radius for reverse gear?"

or

"If there's a 60 mph headwind, how big should the snow chute deflector be?"

As an engineering manager I understand why he is the way he is.  Sometimes an engineer is not satisfied until they think something is perfect, or at least close to it.  And a snow thrower is just one of those toys that is not too big to analyze everything about it and see ways to improve it (in their mind at least).   That's why some of my engineers have trouble finishing a project...they don't want to release it until they've exhausted all ways to make it better.  I admit that he took some things way, way too far (measuring the  weight on each wheel with a bathroom scale?), but he did inspire some beneficial technological discussion in the process.  It did get out of hand at the end though.  I can relate somewhat because as soon as I took delivery of my Ariens Platinum 24, I immediately went to town making various improvements to the machine.  As delivered, I was not really happy with it, but now the thing is much more solid, mechanicals function smooth as silk, and little things that could have become problems down the line have been modified up front to avoid them.  It's a fun project, taking a machine and making it better.   I just think he would have been better off designing and building a machine for himself...that's the only way he might have been happy. 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Well, because the reinforcement adds about .3 pounds of weight to the bucket to keep the nose down, and you can spin that impeller 1 RPM faster.  What's wrong with you?  Can't you read?

Peogeot figured how to keep the nose of the car down by dangling a 1 pound carrot 3 feet in front of the driver and they now dominate WRC but can't sell a single car in the US.  Meanwhile Subaru WRX is no longer in the race because they should really be focusing on selling cars.  My decision tree tells me that I should buy the Husqvarna hydrostatic snowblower because no one know how well a ribbon auger works and dealers don't stock it.

Steve, I'm really joking so don't be offended.  Sometimes its hard to decipher over the internet.

slinger wrote:

Having worked with a variety of engineers over many years. I apparantly haven't known any to be as bad as what I saw that guy do. But I do agree some of them get really boggged down in the details and that can screw up a project. However like you have pointed out he should have bought something close to what he wanted and then modified it to his own liking. That would have been an optimal solution.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah, I know you're joking and it's quite funny actually.

I had stated to him many times that you buy a snowblower to blow snow. All those details aren't all that important. Because there are far too many unknown variables between machines.

But I thought Ford with it's 300HP Focus (Europe only) was the dominator in WRC? It changes every year. Even Ken Brock doesn't drive a Subie any more. maybe if it had a hydrostatic ribbon auger it would do better.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Not a chance, unless it you bolt on the Turbo Encabulator, Spastic Sigmoid Resonator, 175# on the Snowflakka Scoopula, and Seismic Detonator Diffuser.

aa335 wrote:

Oh well, sure if you add THOSE to it of course it would be awesome. Don't forget a V8 engine preferably a 426 Hemi Crate motor just to get a wee bit extra throwing distance.

Like this one for example

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2009/01/21/v8-snowblower-can-probably-plow-through-cars-too/

Well, that pretty much answers the question:  "How big should it be?"

What a beast!  Unfortunately we now have been told that our snow throwers are "boring"...  The only question left is: How much of the V8 blower's 800 lb weight is on the left track and how much is on the right one?

That all depends if the "loose nut" is on the right side or left side of the engine.  Is that uphill or downhill?  What is the phase of the moon and Obama's approval rating?  Price of crude oil and Apple Ipad profit margin?

In any case, we're going to need a bigger bathroom scale.  Do you want the answer in a table form or 500-page dissertation of the Kennedy conspiracy?

aa335 wrote:

Yep, pretty much.

slinger wrote:

Well if it's balanced it should be 50/50. Of course we'd need a bathroom scale to be more accurate. LOL

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Well, that brings up other questions, "How big should the bathroom scale be?". "What are the advantages of a digital scale?". "Should the LED display blue or red?"

But the article doesn't answer the original question ... how big is the auger on that thing? Impeller speed? With that kind of power, it should have a 18"x72" auger, and a 18" impeller at 1800 RPM. Clarence kit, of course. Remote start because by doing your driveway in 2 passes, it won't run long enough to properly warm up, and you'll need it warmed up so that radiator can serve as your heater on those cold days. Maybe nitrous injection for the EOD?

I'd go with a diesel engine before nitrous for EOD.