Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Good: price, 357cc engine, joystick chute control, dual trigger steering, heated handgrips, 16x6.5 tires, 30" auger width.

Maybe not-so-good: 12" auger dia., 12" impeller, plastic chute, MTD affiliation?

Consumer reports top pick for value per dollar (not that they are always correct)  Maybe it won't throw the furthest or last 20 years but for the money would you really be doing yourself an injustice if you bought this?  Some others claim to have gotten a good 10-15 years of service from MTD, Murray, Yardman, Craftsman units.  Are there specific issues that make this one a poor choice?  One can always say you should spend X dollars more and get something better but that's comparing apples to oranges.  Dollar for dollar this time, even if it's not what YOU would do...

Only one brand other than MTD has an impeller bigger than 12": Ariens. Several have 14" augers but Husqvarna has a 12" one. MTD's Cub Cadet 900 and Sears Professional have 16" auger and impellers.

The 357cc is relatively new and built for MTD. It fits into a growing class of Chinese engines, often called Honda knockoffs. Few reports on performance or reliablity, however, aren't all 2010 engines relatively reliable?

Toro has a plastic chute on its $1900 28" model with a comparable power engine.

There seems to be agreement that the 'dual trigger steering', an operator selectable left and/or right free wheel sometimes marketed as 'power steering' is the easiest to handle. It is also used by Toro and Husqvarna.

However, given the cost of the purchase it may pay to see some others. Ariens and Toro are at the other home center chain and just looking at them back to back may answer some of your questions. And visiting a dealer may not be a bad idea. I beleive tha is the same price the dealer would charge, however the dealer would assemble and adjust it first and be the person you take it to for repairs and maintenance in or out of warranty. Whoever services the MTD products (Troy-bilt, Yardman, Cub Cadet) in your area should also be a dealer.

I recently purchased a new Ariens to replace a 15 - 16 year old two stage (tecumseh 5HP) MTD Yard Machines snow thrower. Since I bought the Ariens I felt brave enough to tackle the problems I've had with the MTD snow thrower. The main problem I've had with the machine was difficulty starting it. When it did start, it would need to be set to full choke and even then the engine felt like it was struggling. So I searched online and I gathered that the problem was probably a dirty carb. I searched on YouTube for a couple of videos on how to take apart, clean, and rebuild these tecumseh carbs. As most people on this site already know...it was pretty easy to do. Other than that, I changed the oil, changed the spark plug, and put in fresh gas. Now I have 15 - 16 year old MTD snow thrower that consistently starts on the first pull. The engine feels as powerful as the day when it was first purchased and I don't need to have the choke on for the engine to run. I've never had a problem with the plastic chute (never broken/never cracked), never had a problem with the auger, the sheer pins, or any of the components on the machine. Nothing has ever broken...any trouble I've had over the passed few years is the result of not really caring for the machine (leaving gas in the machine all year). I'm not saying the machine is on par with a Honda in terms of quality/build but if my anecdotal evidence means anything, here I am with a 15 - 16 year old MTD machine w/ a tecumseh engine that I can see easily going another 15 years or so with proper care. I'm not saying run out and go buy this Troy-Bilt and maybe MTD has produced some real garbage over the years, I don't know...but I do think think this idea that all MTD's are junk is really a gross and untrue exaggeration.

I had the occasion to use a Troy-Bilt 28" machine last year.  It started easily, threw 10" of old snow pretty far and the joystick chute control was handy.  It did not have any steering however and that made it a bear to maneuver.  The bucket seemed to ride up a little if the speed was not kept very low (no additional weights used) .  But if it had steering I would say that it did fairly well. 

Other than the carb this and that, not really an MTD issue, I'd add two other things. My MTD 28" 10hp broke different springs at different times leaving it dead to the world. It also broke cables. The lower edges of the scoop continually bend in.  I don't know if this is common across brands or across all MTD models, but it has definitely given the feeling of having numerous things that can break. Looking at what I needed to replace this year--a pretty broad assortment of belts, springs, and cables...plus the carb and a tire that doesn't want to hold air...I thought it was time. Also, even in its best days, it struggled with heavy wet snow.

The new unit with the 357 may not have the wet snow issue. Feature wise, this model, available as an MTD Gold, Troy built, and Cub Cadet in 28", is feature rich for the price.

Slinger:

   I would not worry about the many negative posts about MTD.  They are a good value machine.  I'm very familair with the the steering and rest of the tractor section which is fine and good for 15 to 20 easily with maintenance and proper use.   Their old plastic chutes were fine.  The new machines use a different chute and plastic but are probably fine.   All the stuff topside is fairly new so have not been around for years to get a grip on for durability.   I have not seen a lot of valid grips about them though.  The gearbox is the same as MTD used for the last 15- 20 years and can last.  If you don't take in a newspaper, big rock or piece of firewood your good for 20. 

DavidNJ mentioned cables and springs [belts are a non-issue].  The older machines I see do have occasional spring rust but not a big deal.  Every 5 to 10 years you may have to replace a spring but those can be had at any hardware store and can be replaced easily by anyone.  DavidNJ's MTD machine style had an auger cable issue at the left front (handles view) of the tractor section which pinched on some machines.  The sheath frayed and eventually wore down the metal brade.  If the cable tension is kept after it rides in it's wheel and not be a problem.   Regardless a few cables and springs over many years is not a factor.  I've had plenty of machines here that were 10-15 years old that never had a cable replaced but have had to install new springs on some. 

This model has the auger rake shaft supported on roller bearings which is nice.  This is a positive feature over other makers that lack them.  The fantastic Yamaha has it's rakes supported with roller bearings.   Shame on Ariens and Toro.

The friction disk seems to be the same as they have used for 15 years.  It's thin and not the best.  It can last 20 years of you don't gorilla man the machine around and use it normally.  If you are agressive and wear out the friction disk it is very inexpensive and easy to get the friction disk out and mount a new one. 

Best of all it does not have electronic cute control. I'd be very leary of those.  With very easy one hand control and joystick control on the chute I can't see the need for an expensive failure point.  The electronic controls have only been around for a few years so no telling how they will eventualy work out.   But the same applies for the joystick. 

The move is toward wheel drive and handlebar steering.  MTD has a great implementation for that, simple but robust.  Within a few years all the other makers will be offering wheeldrive.   I would not hesitate about this machine other than shopping around for a sale on a different brand name but the same machine like might show up at Sears or Lowes.

What about the bending of the scoop corners?

From your description it would seem my local MTD dealer didn't detail that well when it was in for service.

The MTDs I found most interesting were the Cub Cadet 900 series (also sold as Sears Professional) that had 16" augers and impellers with the handlebar steering. However, they have the slow direct crank for shute rotation.

The 30" equal to the Troy-bilt is at Sears for $980: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07188830000P?vName=Gifts&cName=WinterReadiness&sName=Winter%20Storm%20Clean-up&sid=IDx20070921x00003a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=07188830000P#reviewsWrap

There are 17 reviews on the page.

Could someone comment on this:

"We just got 8" of snow overnight so I got to put the new snowblower to the test. It did not take long to figure out that 8" of snow requires you to be in slow gear so that the snowthrower can keep up with that much snow coming in the huge front end. Fortunately, it has a really low 1st gear and did a great job!

Easy to manuever, although the triggers take a little while to get used to. Started on the first pull after pressing the primer bulb three times and using full choke. The chute control worked very well, without any binding or other hangups that plagued earlier models. The locking mechanism on the joystick is kind of a pain, but does work as intended.

I have a large driveway (150' x 14' plus two 40' x 40' pads) and it completed the task in just over an hour. The chute really directed the snow well and I estimate it shot the snow about 30'. I have a 6' high fence and the chute directed snow over the fence when only 3' to 4' away which really added to my options as to where to blow the snow."

>>What about the bending of the scoop corners?

Get your glasses prescription checked.   I use channel locks to bend them back and at least while there are here and in use I don’t drive into things.  That’s really all it takes. 

>>From your description it would seem my local MTD dealer didn't detail that well when it was in for service.

I buy quite a few machines from people and many that have had steady dealer service over time.  It’s a pity what dealers don’t do on their service.  Service is mostly a rip from what I’ve seen.  For a machine already in the shop, flipping it on it’s bucket, un-mounting the bottom cover and checking out the inside is not a big deal and something a dealer should do on a general service.  The auger lever return spring also works the break spring.  It’s right there when the bottom cover is off and easy to pull out.  The other spring on your machine is under the belt cover and takes about 30 seconds to get into the tensioner bracket hole.  The other hard part is taking out the two screws for the cover which is not so hard.    

Each year during the summer (minimum every second year) you should have flipped it up and poked around in there for PM and avoid dealer costs and down the road problems.  Had you ever checked or topped off the auger gearbox?

The MTDs I found most interesting were the Cub Cadet 900 series (also sold as Sears Professional) that had 16" augers and impellers with the handlebar steering. However, they have the slow direct crank for shute rotation.

What’s with the gripe about slow chute rotation, this and Honda?  It’s a snowblower and you only use it a few times a year.  Do you have some place where if you don’t change direction quickly you break several windows or can’t complete the job?  Do you tire easily after cranking the handle a few times?  This seems like small potatoes.  For me anyway I never used a dash mounted crank that was a problem regardless of turns.  I do a fair amount of chute control here by the way because of several preferences for where the snow goes.  Lots of turning the crank while moving.  I can’t deal with machines that have do not have one hand control.  One hand and side crank is a bit of a pain but number of turns is a zero issue. 

I've posted our functional requirements in two other threads. In this case it isn't throw distance it is wet, compacted, heavy snow. It has to put enough energy into it to discharge.  Another goal is getting though the EOD mound the plows leave which are regularly 3-4' tall.  Even in powder, the 10hp Tecumseh MTD struggled a bit; we could only use 1/2 to 2/3rds of the scoop width without it spilling over the sides.

I can straighten it; it shouldn't bend in the first place. I don't know the gage metal used in the different brands. However the bends and creases for rigidity look feeble on the MTD, much better on the Ariens and Deere/Simplicity.

Yes...there are several places it needs to change direction and deflection as it moves near the house, some plantings, and the cars. Had the crank like the 16" auger MTD and Hondas on the current model...it was always a pain.

It does seem that I should have learned how to maintain these things. I've been thinking of rebuilding the current one, but it would probably cost $200+ in parts, and since its my first go through some if it, I'm guessing 15-20 hours. It doesn't seem worth it. An equivalent one new is $800 (on sale at Lowes last year for $680). Instead we would like to address the capacity, heavy snow, manuverablity, and reliablity issues.

This page has reviews of a large MTD: http://www.mysears.com/Craftsman-Professional-12-hp-33-in-4-Cycle-Tecumseh-2-Stage-Snowthrower-reviews?tab=reviews

FYI, just got an ad today in the mail from Lowes: All Troy-Bilt snow throwers 15% off.  I don't know if this is local or nationwide.  Their website does not reflect this yet.  The ad says prices valid 10/7/10 thru 10/11/10 or while supplies last.  Makes that 3090 XP model $934.15 before tax.  (I do not work for Lowes or Troy-Bilt).  Figures... I just ordered an Ariens Platinum 24 earlier this morning!

Would the $165 have changed your decision? A way to ask that at what price would you chose the Troy-bilt over the Ariens?

Actually it might have.  After realizing that a 30" machine was really too big, I noticed that on both the Lowes and Troy-Bilt websites, for each machine you can click on  "view demo" where you get a pop-up that shows the features of the machine.  The Troy-Bilt 28" model looked to have almost all of the features of the 30" including "touch & turn power steering", and still has a 277cc engine.   After realizing that the discounted price on this unit was only going to be $764.15, I ran straight to Lowes to see if it was in stock.   Fortunately it was....unfortunately, it does NOT have the "touch & turn power steering" (dual trigger) like it's bigger 30" brother does (Troy-Bilt's misprint).  So yes I would have saved $440 dollars if I had picked it up instead of the Platinum 24, but the lack of steering (locked axle) was the dealbreaker....for me.  

We were out last March I stopped into a Lowes for some plumbing piece. They had the close out sales and that 28" was $680. We knew the unit had died in a big way after being weak all winter, and were tempted. That Lowes was a long way from us (beyond or at the edge of their shipping distance) and we hadn't done any homework. We didn't even know about the 30" model or have an idea of what our machine needed. We weren't expecting more snow; we were way wrong on that one.

Redoing our analysis, that is only considering 28-30" machines with some form of steering, the MTD is interesting. It is $1000 including delivery and drift bars from Sears. This compares to $1330 for an Ariens 30" Deluxe, $1550 for the Deere 1330SE, $1580 for the Cub Cadet 930SWE (16" auger/impelle, many turn chture crank, some online complaints of flimsy chute), $1630 for the Ariens 30" Platinum, $1680 for the 30" Simplicity, $1875 for the Sears Profsssional 33" (same as the Cub Cadet 900 but 33"), $1900 for the Husqvarna 16530EXL (with hydrostatic drive), $2020 for the Toro 1128OXE (drift 'breaker' is an expense $70). It is less than half the price of the Toro!

Of that group only MTD, Toro, and Husqvarna have left/right freewheel 'power steering'. The Deere has the intuitive, easy electric chute control, the MTD 30" and Toro have one lever chute control. Haven't tried them all for balance, or seen the Cub Cadet, Sears Professional, or Husqvarna. The Deere looks a bit more substantial (other than handlebar arms) than the Ariens, then the Toro, then the MTD. However, I have no way of determining which is the acceptable level of construction and which is overkill. Some posts indicate my complaints about my 14 yo MTD have since been corrected in the newer models. There are no complaints that I've found that the Toro or Ariens models are inadequately designed. So the Deere may be overkill. The Toro may suffer from 'over price', however, it may have the highest ease of use.

Net: the price gap from the discounted MTD to the next unit is large, to the Toro which has similar features it is huge, and its performance and reliablity may be adequate.

I looked at the MTD (the Sears, same as the Troy-bilt) today and at the Ariens Deluxe 30. $980 vs $1300 (really $1000 vs $1300 net of discounts and shipping).

The MTD had the features but was clearly poorer in implementation. I found at least one piece of questionable engineering (the MTD auger, another thread). They are using a full length skid shoe to reinforce a rather weak scoop edge.

Seeing the Ariens 5 minutes later at Home Depot, the difference in implementation--scoop, auger, impeller, chute, controls--was immediately apparent. Every thing was stronger, better finished, worked smoother. Home Depot had two 30" models on display.

IMHO, the Ariens was clearly worth the price differential.

Trouts2, what is the specific advantage of real ball or roller bearings on the auger rake shaft over a $2 nylon flanged sleeve bushing?  I was highly disappointed to learn that Ariens uses this setup.  Seriously though, have you seen these things wear out?  Does the metal mount that is attached to the side of the auger housing break?  They put a zerk fitting on the shaft to lube the outside of the nylon bushing and the inside of the (tubular?) shaft.   Would one benefit by using a better grade sleeve bushing (MDS-Nylon, PEEK, Delrin, UHMW Poly, Bronze)?  Can the unit be retrofitted with flange mount ball bearings?  It doesn't look like there's a lot of room to work with on the ends of the shaft.

>>Trouts2, what is the specific advantage of real ball or roller bearings on the auger rake shaft over a $2 nylon flanged sleeve bushing?  I was highly disappointed to learn that Ariens uses this setup.  Seriously though, have you seen these things wear out? 

 

Wear out, yes.  How fast depends on the machine.  MTD’s nylon or whatever they are made from are a common wear point,  Ariens bronze bushings in the older machines lasted a long time.  Ariens now uses some plastic busings in their newer machines.  I replaced a few I think on 2005’s or around that year.  Too early for such wear.   

 

>>Does the metal mount that is attached to the side of the auger housing break? 

 

The one that holds up the auger shaft?  No, never saw one broken.  They support a flange bearing which can become so worn it wears into the holder.  The wear can be so bad it allows the auger shaft to jump out of the holder all together.

 

>>They put a zerk fitting on the shaft to lube the outside of the nylon bushing and the inside of the (tubular?) shaft.  

 

The rake zerks are only to prevent rust between rakes and shaft.

Pre-Briigs Snappers had zerks on the auger shaft bearing holders.  No other company had that.  They also had an oil holding chain case in the tractor section, also something no other company had.  A bit of overkill but their machines were fantastic and lasted.

 

>>Would one benefit by using a better grade sleeve bushing (MDS-Nylon, PEEK, Delrin, UHMW Poly, Bronze)? 

    I have no idea what those are but Bronze is good for 20-30 years, a couple of bucks to replace so why putz around?

 

>>Can the unit be retrofitted with flange mount ball bearings?  It doesn't look like there's a lot of room to work with on the ends of the shaft.

   Sure, you get an inside mount support that the shaft fits into.  Many makers have that type of support,MTD, Ariens and others.  You could pick up another makers support for you auger shaft.    A few guys did that for a rake design problem with Sears Husqvarna’s.  If the machine came with roller bearings great but once you get a machine with flange type you’ll probably only replace them once over the life of the machine so probably not worth doing.    

 

So are you saying that the easiest and most cost effective solution is to just replace the nylon bushings with the same size bronze bushings?  That could be done when the machine is new and would hardly be noticeable at all (translation: not void warranty).  Then hopefully the potential wear problem would be nipped in the bud...at least for a good number of years.

As Trouts2 stated that is what I did with my Sears Husky.

Stock


Bearing Upgrade


All my other mods here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/audreyappliance/2008Craftsman145TorqueRatingSnowThrower#

I wish I had found this thread earlier :( I just got what I thought was a screaming deal on the 3090 XP and was looking forward to this being a good unit but after reading some of the comments here am not so sure. I have had a 24" Troy Bilt storm for 4 years and had (touch wood) no issues. I just needed something bigger due to large area to clear so decided to sell the 24 this week. I saw that Lowes had the 10% off Troy bilt and also had another Lowes 10% card so brought the cost on the 3090 XP from $1099 down to $881. I am happy with a number of the upgrades over my 24 but did not know (doh) that the impeller and auger sizes on the 3090 seem to be the same. So, my question to you all is for the $881 I paid what do you think ? Keep it at this good price and see how she does or are they that bad I should take it back and if so what unit would come close in the $1k mark or under ? Thanks all, will keep my eye on this forum in the future WC

I don't think you'll find anything new with similar features for anywhere close to that price.  There are better machines out there but for the price you paid I think you did well. You ought to get a good # of years out of that machine.  I have used the 28" Storm and it performed well aside from steering which was a pain in the @$$, but it didn't have the trigger power steering like yours does.  Just keep it, make sure to perform all maintenance on schedule, etc., and I think you will be a happy camper.