Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was reading about the Clarence impeller improvement online today. It attaches a rubber gasket to each impeller blade ceiling it against impeller housing. Most who tried it seemed to report outstanding results especially with heavy wet snow. The only place where some reported it may not be effective were on units, such as the Honda, that reportedly have very tight clearances tween the impeller blades and the housing from the factory.

Ariens snowblowers are well-known for their high-capacity high capacity. Well most large snowblowers at 12 inch diameter impellers, the Ariens have 14 inch. That is over 16% faster speed at the end of the impeller blade. Does that give them a decisive edge?

So the question is: how important is the design of the impeller to the overall system performance? Are tight clearances between the impeller and it's housing critical? If so, which brands have the tightest ones? Is the diameter of the impeller critical? If so, did he Ariens and others with large impellers have a distinct advantage? The Clarence kit is inexpensive if you can install it yourself. Should everybody be installing these kits? TheToro has a unique impeller housing. Partially plastic, it has a return for excess snow to be returned to scoop. The effective Toro and edge or is it a disadvantage?

Toro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTAAaT_sFss

DavidNJ wrote:
Engine, transmission, track drive, build quality, reliability and performance are all the best in the business.

I don't know what you think you can interpret out of paper stats. Honda's reputation for building the best snowblowers is based on actual experience, its a proven machine that has been around a long time. It has nothing to do with their great reputation for other products like you said in another post. Thats just nonsense. I don't know what it is you have against them. All I can say is get some real life experience in harsh climates with various different machines and you'll see why honda is king in places that need the most out of a snowblower(get crap loads of snow all winter long).

giocam wrote:

No evidence for any of the claims. The engine doesn't appear to be anything special. Where is it made. Ditto the transmission. To the best of my knowledge there is no data on build quality and reliablity across brands. In cars, Honda is more mid-pack these days.

That leave performance. I looked at the videos. The think is SLOW. In all the videos the snow blower seemed slower than nearly every other brand in videos. And that was with it s rather narrow widths. As far as throwing, look at the videos. It is shooting a rather small load out at high speed. You can tell that by how tight the spread is as it leaves the chute and how far it goes before it spreads.

We already determined it has a very awkward chute direction control and no steering making it very hard to manuvuer. In the videos everyone was going straight. In one an 17 year old or so was wrestling with it.

It seems like an undesigned over priced product with misleading advertising using a multi-product brand image to deceive consumers.

How crap you are some stubborn.

The evidence is in the real life experience. Until you get some, you have no clue.

giocam wrote:

You buy a snow blower, pay top dollar, haven't used an equivalent sized or priced unit from a major manufacturer, and proud of your uninformed purchase?

Evidence, or it is just talk.

As far as specs, I'm mech engineer with a degree from a school that will go unnamed but you would immediately recognize. I've analyzed enough flows to know about throw, drop, and dispersion. This is a low volume high velocity flow, like a high velocity HVAC air handler like a Unico, SpacePak, or EPS.

We have more than enough threads here to know the value of steering and a quick crank. Anyone who has ever used a 24" plus snowblower knows the value of those. And Honda has neither?

It seems your faith is like belong to a religion that can't grow food and touts the value of fasting and how its population isn't obese. North Korea comes to mind.

LOL your education has zero to do with reading stat sheets and deciphering which performs best when it comes to HANDS ON operation of a snowblower. But like every other engineer I know, you think you know it all.

In contrast with repeated evidence you know little or nothing?

DavidNJ wrote:
You are a fine example of an office engineer. You discount real world experience in favor of your text book knowledge. I've seen examples of this my whole life and as a result have a new found understanding of why so called 1st world countries are in so much trouble financially and from a practical standpoint. Someone attempts to inform you that you need to try it before making a judgement call but you refuse to listen and resort to insults.

DavidNJ:

This is a low volume high velocity flow, like a high velocity HVAC air handler like a Unico, SpacePak, or EPS

 

Is that estimate based on the videos?  How can you judge density?

 

I’ve done many –>many<- Honda side by side trials (same day, same conditions) with US machines i.e. Toro, Ariens, Murray and MTD.  The Honda easily beat all other brands of the same horsepower and generally beat machines of higher horsepower.  For similar hp machines the Honda generally beat them distance wise by 10-15 feet.  For throughput while doing this there was no contest.  The Honda could go at a much faster pace.  It easily beat other similar hp machines in throughput and distance.

 

Distance and throughput are not a sole function of impeller diameter.  Throughput and distance are a function of a number of things like, impeller diameter, chute shape, chute angle, intake housing output port size and shape, impeller arm shape, rotational speed of impeller and augers, auger shape & etc. 

 

The posts here are not peer reviewed but it is mostly accepted here and on other forum that Honda is taken as a great quality built high end machine (standard) even by those who see some of Honda’s features or lack of them as a detraction.   Most who believe or accept that unfortunately have not seen or used a Yamaha. 

 

Giocam:

I live in an area that gets hit hard with snow. Honda's are everywhere here and they are awesome machines! The best performance,quality and reliability in the business. Yamaha is the only thing that comes close.

 

Giocam seems to be in an area where he sees a lot of Hondas in use and impressed by them.  His estimate of Honda and Yamaha seems right on the money, although I’d give the edge to Yamaha. 

If horsepower was the measure of equivalence and throw was the measure of performance, who knows.

The Honda clearly is putting a lot of energy into what it throws. It is coming out of the chute fast and hard. However, what you are concerned with is volume/mass not velocity and throw. Throw is more of a safising condition.

The Honda clearly is putting a lot of energy into what it throws. It is coming out of the chute fast and hard. However, what you are concerned with is volume/mass not velocity and throw. Throw is more of a safising condition.

Horsepower is a bit nebulous, since the ratings are different. Displacement/price would be better indicators. Honda wheeled snow blowers are in the $2300-2800 dollar range for widths of 24-28" with the biggest motor being an 270cc OHV 8.5hp/14ft-lb. The closest equivalent in price/size from another manufacturer is maybe the $1900 Toro 1128OXE. Otherwise a 28-30" 305cc Briggs and Stratton.

I'd love to see a video of the 28" $2800 HS928WAS Honda against the $1299 Ariens Deluxe 30", either the 921013 305cc Briggs and Stratton or the 287cc OHC Subaru. It shouldn't even be close, not even counting the Ariens huge advantage in operator interface.

Just for the record, my driveway is 250'x16' circular with an additional 600-1000sqft (out of 1600sqft) of motor pad that is cleared. The plows leave huge, hard EOD piles, which must be cleared an additional 15' to allow mailbox access. The house and shrubbery require a decent throw. The arc puts a significant part of the driveway in a turn. For the past 14 years I've plowed it myself with a 28" MTD with 12" auger and impeller, 16x6.5 tires, and powered by an 11hp Tecumseh.

Although this area has one expensive community after another, and there are maybe nearly 20 dealers plus 3 Home Depots and 2 Lowes within 10 miles, the nearest Honda dealer is 15 miles away.

This Honda info has been moderately interesting; it shows the effect of a high speed impeller. It probably begs the question: what are the impeller speeds of the other models? An interestingly, does the Ariens Deluxe 30" with the Subaru engine (replacing a Techumseh) work differently because the engine runs 10% faster although the gearing is the same.

Like I said, the ariens model which you would want to compare to the hs928 is the st928dlet. They are the upper echelon class of walk behind snowblowers and are the sameish price.

The deluxe with the subaru engine is a good machine but its not in the same class as the honda and higher end ariens. It may better a better value for your money though. But if money is no issue and you want the absolute best, Honda and Yamaha is where its at.