Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Recently I installed a tach/hour meter on my Toro 828 LXE and found theat the maximum operating governed engine speed was 3,300 RPM spiking to 3,330 RPM's.  I actually felt it was running a bit slowly but decided to use it, as is,  immediately after it stopped snowing on Sunday.  Well, we had about a foot of snow on the driveway with some 18" drifts, and the EOD was about 21", thanks to the snow plows.  The machine handled it perfectly until I got to the  EOD.  While blowing through it, the Tecumseh engine wanted to stall.  Nobody can tell me this is normal on a high end snowblower like this.  It was 15 degrees and it was freshly plowed loose snow.  If it had been wet, I would have been able to look past it.

With all the research I've done in the last 24 hours, I am nearly convinced that the governed RPM set by the manufacurer may have much to do with the horse power rating they give them.  The Tecumseh 9hp-11hp Snowking engines all vary greatly in governed RPM, as low as 3,350 up to 3,700 on the 11hp OHV version.  When I see that the Tecumseh 9hp is 318cc's and the 11hp is also 318cc's, where are they getting these horse power ratings from. Making an engine OHV gives you that much more power?

Well, I wasn't able to find the governed operating RPM for my Tec 8hp L-head engine, and given the wide margin of RPM's on their engines, I decided to raise the operating speed of mine to what I felt it should be.  Initially I raised it to 3,600 as it was suggested to me to do, but I felt this was too fast by the way it sounded.  So I then reduced it to 3,400 spiking to 3,430.  Roughly 80-100 RPM's higher than what it was. 

The result of this, I took it out into the street to the 28" high, five foot across snow drifts left on the side of the street from the snowplows.  These drifts are 8" higher than my auger housing.  The sun was out and the snow was nice and moist, perfect for making snowballs.  I raised the throttle to operating RPM, put it in 1st gear and off I sent it into the drift.  The chute started to toss the snow some 40 feet across the road and you could now hear the engine under a load.  The difference this time is that the engine was maintained speed and not a hint of it wanting to stall.  In fact, the tires actually broke loose and I started pushing it into the drift to the point it began tunneling.  The entire time the engine didn't faulter for a second and I actually felt I had a 10 hp engine on this great machine.

What a difference a very small increase in governed engine RPM makes.  At one point on Sunday I was upset with myself for not shelling out the extra money for Toro's top of the line 11 hp OHV version for over $1,600.00.  Well, after how this experiment worked out, now I feel I just saved myself over $400.00 because this snowblower can go through anything now.

  Richie,

    Based on your info, Toro is charging $100. 00 more for the 1028LXE over the 828LXE, just for a JET difference!!

Sounds like Toro is ripping off the public!!

Greater HP out of the same displacement, means shorter engine life!

                                                                   Fred      

Hi Fred,

I'm not thrilled either about this, but I believe it is just as Marshall pointed out yesterday.  This is an industry wide thing that goes on and I have no doubt Briggs & Stratton ranks their engines in the same manner.  As for Toro, they don't make the engines, they purchase them from Tecumseh.  In fact, any snowblower manufacturer that uses Tecumseh engines are doing this, Ariens and the others as well.  As I said before, maybe this is one of those dirty little industry secrets we've discovered.  I'll get my hands on the real service manual and look at the parts myself before I make a final judgment.  Of course, paying very close attention to carburetion components between engines

  Richie,

            I know Tec makes the engine. But is Toro paying $100.00 more for the engine?

No way!  Maybe $5.00 more. Still a RIP OFF by Toro and the Rest!!

                                                                            Fred   

well now heres a real can of worms....

the tecumseh ohv engines arent really that new.

they just have new style carbs on them.built this way to pass emmissions regulations.

as far as the engine producing more power with a larger jet thats simple enough.the jet they are refering to is what is actually called the main nozzle .its a pink colored tube held in place with 2 o rings right up the middle of the carb.cost is very resonable ,couple bucks at most.

the tricky part is going to be getting one.

you will have to wander around a bit and copy the model and serial numbers of a new machine.then see your friendly parts guy and tell him that you left gas in your machine ant it turned the carb gummy.

of course the only piece thet really gets rotten is the main nozzle.

they may just sell you one that way

if you promise to behave i will get part numbers for the nozzle and even check  some other stuff in the carb and engine

the bowl nut on these newer engines can also affect performance if gummy but i think they are the same on the 9 10 and 11,but ill check part #

later snowshoveler

Hey Snow!!

Where the heck have you been? Glad you haven't missed all the fun and it looks like you stopped by just in time.  That sounds great about the part numbers.  It would save me a lot of work getting manuals.  I'm curious, what if the consumer simply wanted a carb rebuild kit and you had the model number of the snowblower? Don't you get all new jets or the main nozzle with it, or do they expect you to just clean and reinstall them and simply supply all the gaskets?  BTW...I'll be real good At least I'll try.

jubol wrote:
Pretty close Fred,  at Tulsa Engine Warehouse, the difference between the Tec 9hp and 11hp L-heads is about $6!

Tulsa Engine Warehouse

Yep...

Sounds like the corporation marketing and money makin' machine at work...

Same engine... different inexpensive/same-priced carburator jets... a lot of profit for a different HP sticker...



Buyer beware !  



Dave...

you may get the bowl nut with your kit but the main nozzle is a special order deal.i have replaced them but only when rebuilding a green carb.thats one that had gas in it for a while.

and we all know that gas will rot in one of those real fast.

seems that the more different metals you put in a carb the faster it goes sour ,then things get messy.

im still unsure of the horsepower difference,i think its more than just the carb.

im betting there is a bore and stroke change.

ill know tomorrow,soon as i get to the microfiche cards.

hmmm i feel like a secret agent...

later chris 

okay here is the info that i found on the tecumseh engines.

the 8,8.5,9, 10, 10.5,11L heads all have the same piston... part # 35776a

the 10,11,12,12.5,13 ohv all have the same piston...part #40011

only differences i could find (and i might add i was on my lunch break) was in the carb.

the bowl nut (aka high speed)  part #s 640005 ,640024 ,640012 ,640137. sells for6.56 to 11.46

and main nozzle (aka plastic tube) part # 640005 ,640013.sells for 1.73 to 3.53

all prices are canadian and subject to change without notice bla bla bla ha ha

so it would seem that there is little difference between the engines.

next i went to the service manual and found that the l head engines all have the same bore and stroke but there are 2 different

cubic inch displacements .

didnt get to look for the dislacement info on the ohv engines.

so far its kinda interesting

later chris.

ps i dont know which carb takes which nozzle or bowl nut...i will need engine spec numbers for that.

Shoveler, small blocks and big blocks huh? LOL

Thanks for you efforts and time!