Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Apparently, my local Toro dealer says that this year's 421Q model comes with a B&S 4-stroke engine.  He said that this engine is more powerful than the 2-stroke R-tek engine that is in the 221Q. 

He started the 421Q 4 stroke engine.  It sounded fairly quiet and was relatively vibration free smooth running.  Definitely quieter and smoother than the Honda GX160 engine.  I was impressed.  Good job B&S.

He didn't start the 221Q 2 stroke engine.  Stated that it had no gas in tank.  Either that could be true or he didn't want to stink up the showroom with exhaust fumes.

Has anyone used both engines on the Toro 221Q and 421Q and can provide honest report?  Which engine is more powerful and can do the job of moving heavy snow better?

I know there are folks here are dyed in the wool 2-stroke fans, you know who you are.  Barring the 4 stroke heavier weight, complexity, and hassle of oil change, none of these draw backs are really a concern to me, I can go either way.  No big deal to change oil or mix oil in gasoline.  The 421Q felt slightly heavier in the front, but not enough to make a difference.  I won't be lifting either snowblower up and down the bed of a pickup truck so weight difference of 10 lbs isn't an issue. 

aa335 wrote:
Who you calling a junkie?!!

I can quit whenever I want to...

...Done it dozens of times already.

So there!
    

oldcrow wrote:
Hehehe.  Sorry, I jumped the gun gun and lumped you in the same basket case.  Should have waited until you post your list of motorcycles, weed wackers, snowblowers, and snowmobiles....

Like they say, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.  Do you have a problem? 

Nice line up there oldcrow. Sounds like some sweet machines. I'm surprised with your comments about the RD350 frames flexing. They're pretty close to an exact knock off of their race frames of the day only a bit heavier and do-dad brackets on it. Maybe you had worn swing arm bushings or something. The bikes I have are rock solid and handle better than I'm capable of riding them. I do have a 1972 R5 which is the five speed pre- RD version. It's a 350cc engine without reed valves. The six speed tranny comes in handy if you have the power to use it. I've massaged an RD400 and an RD350 to make in the neighbourhood 50 rear wheel h.p. through air intake/carb mods, electronic ignition with programable timing, and efficient expansion chambers. If you thought the old RDs were quick, you'd love these old rockets. I'm working on putting a stock '74 RD350 back together. It's the brandy wine coloured model. Not going to hop that one up. When it's done, I'll be giving the R5 a good going over and possibly a few enhancements.

aa335 wrote:
Hmmmm, let's see - motorcycles, snowmobiles, leaf blower, chain saws, snowblowers, edger, carbide saw, water pump, lawnmowers, generator, ATV, donkey motor...

AHA!  I have no weed-wacker!

There you go - no problem here.
                    

borat wrote:
No museum pieces, but each one tells a story. Thanks.

It is possible that my RD had some damage when I bought it, but I looked it over pretty carefully and saw no obvious signs of abuse. These things were awfully forgiving about being layed down. I added several aftermarket pieces to the stock forks and frame, and replaced the swingarm bushings with roller bearings Overall, it handled quite nicely, until it was pressed hard into a turn.

The tubular swingarm wasn't state-of-the-art, but with a stiff set of Konis it was plenty tough enough for a street bike. In a straight line, I could stop it like a cat on a clothesline (brakes were excellent). But nothing seemed to help when I'd go into a hard turn (both sides) and snap back up - like on a switchback. I could literally feel the bike bend - no kidding - especially with the 16" rear. Came close to losing it several times when the rear would break and hop. Scary.

I was pretty crazy back then, and rode like a maniac. This was about the time that both Suzuki and Kawasaki came out with 700cc+ 2-stroke triples. CB750s, KZ900s, XS750s - it was a good time to be alive. Needless to say, some challenges were met better than others. But, I did my part.

That was one of my first road bikes, and I treated it like a thumper. Not surprising that she finally fell apart piece by piece. But, it remains one of my favorites. Since then, I've straddled everything from a Harley low-rider to a canyon racer. Yet, that little 350 was more fun then I've ever had with my clothes on. Gas consumption was terrible (for me, at least), but at 40c/gal who cared?

With the enhancements you speak of, your little buzzers should keep up with (or pass) any 750 on the road today. Thanks for the trip down Memory Ln, amigo. Ride on.

I started this thread a year ago.  I thought I ressurect it to bring closure to my decision.

"Has anyone used both engines on the Toro 221Q and 421Q and can provide honest report?  Which engine is more powerful and can do the job of moving heavy snow better?" 

This was the question I asked a year ago.  And today, I have the answer to my own question.

Well, my neighbor with the 221QR and I with the 421QE went out to clear the same snow this afternoon.  We both are anal and likes to clear the area in front of our mailboxes so that the mail truck can drive on and get close to the mail box.  This area is usually wet and heavy, and salt laden.  Today, this snow was slushy but in a toothpaste consistency. 

As usual, the 221Q was very strong and throws snow well.  But when it comes this type of snow, the rotor RPM would drop quickly and would not have enough velocity to push the snow up the chute.  The snow would just roll forward of the rotor.  The usual procedure was to back up, shake it a bit, and let the rotor build up speed again.

The 421Q was different, in the same snow, the rotor RPM also dropped, but it maintained a higher speed and was able to push the snow through the chute.  There is no rolling of snow forward of the rotor.  If I ram it too hard into heavy snow, the engine would stall.  In comparison, my 12 year old Honda HS621 is the champ in this kind of snow.  It has more torque and it can push more volume out of the chute, but at a shorter distance.  The rotor design does not allow any snow to roll forward.  The snow would either shoot out of the chute, or the engine would stall.

I was quite impressed with the 421Q and how is stacked up against the HS621 for this kind of test.

In medium and light weight snow, both the 221Q and 421Q are about equal in performance.  Both can throw the snow quite farther than the HS621, which is to be expected.  If you look at the rotor design, you can see the Toro is much more efficient.  The Toro is such a joy to use, fast, light and can be toss around easily.  The Quick Shoot feature is worth every penny.

As a side note, the Toro 221Q is a B&S 2 stroke 141cc engine.  The Toro 421Q is a Loncin 4 stroke 163cc engine.  And the Honda HS621 is Honda's own GX 4 stroke 160cc engine.

In all reality how much snow do these two models max out at?

In fresh snow, these single snowblowers can take on 18" of snow with no problems.  I just went through 18" of snow deposited by a plow at a sidewalk corner, but it does take longer and you need to work at it.  EOD with packed and crusty snow can be tacked with some help from a shovel, but you need a 2 stage metal auger to effectively cut through it. 

Yeah - I'm in the same general area as you -   aa335  - and got that heavy, wet snow today -  The 421QE still did a good job in that heavy stuff.

Instead of throwing the snow over 25' or so - it threw around half that distance - 12' to 15'  -  still an admiral job for the wet, heavy stuff.

Still impressed with how nice the quick chute control system works.

Alty,

I'm having so much fun with the 421Q that I hope to get more snow soon.  Looks like we're going on a few cold days without much precipitation.

In wet heavy stuff, the throwing distance drops down to 8 to 15 feet  That's not too bad.  It doesn't have enough power to loft this kind of snow over 6 foot banks.  That's fine with me, I'll just break out the 2 stage machine if I want to carve out a canyon. 

In preparation for the big one, I just leveled the EOD pile and widened my driveway apron by 8 feet.  :) .  Not with the 421Q of course, the other big red machine.  I needed a place to put my garbage and recyclin bins.