Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Apparently, my local Toro dealer says that this year's 421Q model comes with a B&S 4-stroke engine.  He said that this engine is more powerful than the 2-stroke R-tek engine that is in the 221Q. 

He started the 421Q 4 stroke engine.  It sounded fairly quiet and was relatively vibration free smooth running.  Definitely quieter and smoother than the Honda GX160 engine.  I was impressed.  Good job B&S.

He didn't start the 221Q 2 stroke engine.  Stated that it had no gas in tank.  Either that could be true or he didn't want to stink up the showroom with exhaust fumes.

Has anyone used both engines on the Toro 221Q and 421Q and can provide honest report?  Which engine is more powerful and can do the job of moving heavy snow better?

I know there are folks here are dyed in the wool 2-stroke fans, you know who you are.  Barring the 4 stroke heavier weight, complexity, and hassle of oil change, none of these draw backs are really a concern to me, I can go either way.  No big deal to change oil or mix oil in gasoline.  The 421Q felt slightly heavier in the front, but not enough to make a difference.  I won't be lifting either snowblower up and down the bed of a pickup truck so weight difference of 10 lbs isn't an issue. 

If I may, I'd like to offer my opinion concerning some of oldcrow's comments. First and most importantly is your concerns for having multiple fuel mixtures. Not to be a smart ass but, being very familiar with two cycle engines for a very long time, I feel obligated to advise anyone who wants to know, that having multiple containers with various ratios is totally unnecessary. I have machines that require the following ratios: chainsaws - 32:1, ice auger - 25:1, brush trimmers, leaf blowers, lawn mower - 50:1, racing dirt bike - 25:1, I mix one container at 30:1 and run it in everything listed. A two cycle engine will be sensitive to the oil to fuel ratio only if the oil is UNDER the recommended ratio by quite a margin or ridiculously over. Actually if the mix has way too much oil, it will probably not start and if it does, it will not rev up. Having a greater oil component will not damage an engine and in most cases will deliver better lubrication and power. Let's not forget that modern engines and lubrications are far better now than they were 30 years ago. An engine that called for a ratio of 25:1 back then can run with no problem on modern oil at a ratio of 40:1 or even 50:1. It's not uncommon to see two cycle oils that recommend 100:1 ratios. Regarding your comments about power to size ratio becoming less significant when the engines get larger. This is a bit confusing to me. A two cycle OPE engine will make more power per cc. regardless of the size. It's simply the nature of the beast. As far as I'm concerned, the two cycle engine is superior in OPE applications in just about every aspect other than possibly fuel consumption. I will admit that larger two cycle engines will burn more fuel than an equivalent four stroke. However, anything under 100ccs in size would be insignificant.

Yup, Borat is right. I choose to store my mix in multiple containers - it is not mandatory. Sorry if I was unclear about that. I have a small junkyard of 2-stroke equipment, many of which are long in the tooth. Most small engines are pretty tolerant of a rich mixture, but the finnicky factor does vary widely. I also have a stable of ancient dirt bikes, and they can be VERY stubborn regarding oil. It's just more convenient for me to have several blends pre-mixed on the shelf - up to a point. Holdover from competition days, I suppose.

I'm glad you pointed out probably the most important point to remember: Too RICH is always better than Too LEAN. Like the man said, if you foul your plug or upset the carb balance, these are easy problems to remedy - but enough of a pain to teach you a valuable lesson. Sometimes, an overly-rich mixture can actually help a worn-out engine last a little longer - but that's another story.

Since we're not talking about engines that power airplanes, automobiles, or boats, no one is likely to die if something goes wrong. Hope nobody got scared away with all this esoteric banter.

Stay tuned: A budget RPG launcher for your Craftsman two-stage. Show that b*st*rd in the plow truck you mean business!

oldcrow wrote:

I live on a corner lot with sidewalks.  I have 4 piles to attack when the plow truck finish its business.  Two for the sidewalks, one for the driveway, and one for the mailbox.

I hate the piles that the plow truck leaves behind.  However, I like my plow truck guy.  My car is rear wheel drive with 5" ground clearance.  Without them plow trucks, the furthest I can go is end of driveway. 

Good discussion on the 2-smoke / 4-fart (I think).  It's quite informational and entertaining to read while waiting for the next big snow storm to arrive.  It's been 2+ weeks with no significant snow in my area. 

Yup, I guess we all have too much time on our hands, eh?

You realize I was only joshing about the plow truck, right? Where I live, it makes no difference if they plow the road or not. Just jump on the snowmobile and go.

Good sledding to all.

oldcrow: What kind of old bikes do you have packed away? Do you have some pics? Are you in the US or Canada? I'm asking because I have five vintage 1970s Yamaha RDs that I'm restoring. Just curious what you have.

oldcrow wrote:
Of course.  All in good company among OPE and combustion powered junkies.

borat wrote:
Borat: Thanks for asking. Here's a list of what's currently in my garage and barn. 2-strokes only, in running or rideable condition. Didn't include basket cases, used for parts and fabrication. I'm a pack rat, I'll freely admit.

Bultaco Persang 250, 1972
Bultaco Sherpa 350, 1975 (Sweet!)
H-D XS125, 1972 (Don't say it - it runs!)
CZ 250, 1973
Hodaka Wombat 125, 1972
Honda Mini-Trail 50, 1968 (Remember lusting after one?)
Husky D400 (The beast)
Kaw KX250, 1974
Ossa Phantom 175, 1974
Yammy YZ250, 1971-ish
Yammy YL-1 (100cc) Twinjet, 1966 (the old man - still putts!)

Favorite is the Taco 350 - but I love 'em all.

Best of luck with your RD projects - sounds like you're hooked. You wouldn't have one of the rare 5-speed versions, would you? 5-speed makes more sense for that bike. I rode an RD350 back in the early 70's, had a blast on it. Fair amount of frame flex, but very nimble and stable if you didn't go nuts. Smoothest 2-stroke twin on the planet (for it's day). And, it ran on mogas! Very popular scooter - you shouldn't have a hard time finding parts.

I'll see what pix I can dig up, or take some new ones. BTW, wife sez feel free to make me an offer. I say he who dies with the most toys wins. Any questions?

I live 60 minutes from the border, in northern Michigan - but I'm definitely a US citizen - eh?

aa335 wrote:
Who you calling a junkie?!!

I can quit whenever I want to...

...Done it dozens of times already.

So there!
    

oldcrow wrote:
Hehehe.  Sorry, I jumped the gun gun and lumped you in the same basket case.  Should have waited until you post your list of motorcycles, weed wackers, snowblowers, and snowmobiles....

Like they say, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.  Do you have a problem? 

Nice line up there oldcrow. Sounds like some sweet machines. I'm surprised with your comments about the RD350 frames flexing. They're pretty close to an exact knock off of their race frames of the day only a bit heavier and do-dad brackets on it. Maybe you had worn swing arm bushings or something. The bikes I have are rock solid and handle better than I'm capable of riding them. I do have a 1972 R5 which is the five speed pre- RD version. It's a 350cc engine without reed valves. The six speed tranny comes in handy if you have the power to use it. I've massaged an RD400 and an RD350 to make in the neighbourhood 50 rear wheel h.p. through air intake/carb mods, electronic ignition with programable timing, and efficient expansion chambers. If you thought the old RDs were quick, you'd love these old rockets. I'm working on putting a stock '74 RD350 back together. It's the brandy wine coloured model. Not going to hop that one up. When it's done, I'll be giving the R5 a good going over and possibly a few enhancements.