Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Apparently, my local Toro dealer says that this year's 421Q model comes with a B&S 4-stroke engine.  He said that this engine is more powerful than the 2-stroke R-tek engine that is in the 221Q. 

He started the 421Q 4 stroke engine.  It sounded fairly quiet and was relatively vibration free smooth running.  Definitely quieter and smoother than the Honda GX160 engine.  I was impressed.  Good job B&S.

He didn't start the 221Q 2 stroke engine.  Stated that it had no gas in tank.  Either that could be true or he didn't want to stink up the showroom with exhaust fumes.

Has anyone used both engines on the Toro 221Q and 421Q and can provide honest report?  Which engine is more powerful and can do the job of moving heavy snow better?

I know there are folks here are dyed in the wool 2-stroke fans, you know who you are.  Barring the 4 stroke heavier weight, complexity, and hassle of oil change, none of these draw backs are really a concern to me, I can go either way.  No big deal to change oil or mix oil in gasoline.  The 421Q felt slightly heavier in the front, but not enough to make a difference.  I won't be lifting either snowblower up and down the bed of a pickup truck so weight difference of 10 lbs isn't an issue. 

Thanks aa335. The plastic is just a housing over the engine - seems to make it ultra quiet as it is lined with insulating foam. Its actually more like Glass Reinforced Plastic as opposed to straight plastic. The material is almost identical to that of the inner fenders on my Corvette. Plastic chutes don't bother me one bit - in fact I like them over steel chutes. They are more slippery than a painted steel chute (at least one that hasn't been waxed). Not to say there's anything wrong with an all-metal chute - I just don't see it as a "sign of quality" per se (though alot of really nice Ariens and Simplicitys have them).

As far as I can tell, they made the 2 stroke PowerMax for 3 years. 04-06. The first two years it was called the PowerMax 726te and then the name was switched to the PowerMax 6000 but nothing else on the unit changed. The engine is identical to that in my 221QR - the carbs and jetting are the same as well (I've taken them both apart to look for differences and found nothing) The chassis on the 421 and 221 are the same - but you are right about the plastic housing - the 421 is bigger to accommodate the OHV engine. I've seen the newest 421 in person and it almost seems like the housing for this year is bigger than last year's. I'd have to see it side by side with a Tecumseh powered 421 to be sure though. Like I said - either way you can't go wrong - they're great machines. I'm just a fan of the whole more power for less money thing ;-)

Next time it snows, I'll make a video for you of the machine working - I'll put it to the test as best I can so you can see why I like it. Didn't you say you have a Honda 6/21 single stage? Thats also a pretty awesome/legendary 4-stroke single stage (what with the GX motor and much sturdier construction than the current Honda single-stage junk).

Superbuick,

Thanks for all of the wonderful information on the 221 and 421.  Those photos of your 726 are awesome.  I wish they still made that machine.

So, the Chinese manufactorer is Loncin?  I've heard they make good engines.  A neighbour of mine just got the little powerlite with the 87 cc 4 stroke engine.  I'm guessing that's also a loncin engine.  He used a few times.  Started up well, had a steady growl but the unit would bog down in about 5 cm of wet snow mixed with freezing rain.  Guess that's to be expected with such a tiny engine.  My local dealer said the 2 strokes outsell the 4 strokes this year by at least 3:1. 

How do you find the 2 stroke engine to handle wet, heavy snow and the stuff the plow leaves at the EOD?

Why didn't Toro gets Briggs to make them a 4 stroke engine for their single stage units?  Doesn't husqvarana, simplicity, etc use a 148 ccc 4 stroke engine from brigss on their single stage units?

superbuick wrote:
2010 is the last year for the 2 stroke engine?  That's a great shame.  Will toro only offer the 4 stroke next year?  If so, I might just have to get one of the few ones left.

superbuick wrote:
I had a chance to take apart a Honda HS520 and  found it to be inferior in construction quality compared to the Toro.  Compared to my 10 year old Honda HS621, well, there isn't anything the last 10 years that equal it in quality and robustness.  The GX160 engine is a gem.  I didn't realize how powerful this engine is until I push the snowblower into heavy deep snow.

This weekend, I saw my neighbor tackle wet heavy snow that the snow plow puts on next to the curb.  It was clogged as nothing was coming out of the chute.  I didn't expect the clogging to occur but was impressed with the power of the 2 stroke engine that kept the auger spinning and spitting the snow out in front..  I was using my HS621 removing the same type of snow.  There was no clogging on the HS621.  It threw the wet heavy snow about 6-8 feet onto the parkway, which is all the distance I need, as I did not want the wet snow to go any further and land on the sidewalk.

Overall, in my honest opinion, the Toro 221 / 421 is a best performing snowblower today, and the best single stage snowblower in the US market.  I like how balanced and easy to maneuver it around.  The rubber auger and the inverted funnel housing is designed with maximum efficiency, and it has the most powerful engine to boot.  The throwing distance is impressive.  Pivoting scraper is a great idea and good implementation.  The Quick Shoot is icing on the cake, my favorite feature actually.  Hats off to Toro for an making excellent single stage snowblower.  This is why I am thinking about getting this particular Toro, even though I already have an excellent Honda single stage.

Bump, TTT.

Will the 221 or 421 take a plowed driveway down to bare tar or is it going to leave a lot behind? Also how good is it at handling EOD? I know it's a single stage but I'm looking at havingthedriveway plowed then using a smaller machine to clean up. But the EOD will still get filled in because the city plows keep coming long after the guy plows our driveway. Any thoughts? Oh and I'm not real keen on 2 strokes but yeah I guess I could mix up gas for my wife beforehand.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Yes, both of the Toro will clean the pavement well, same rubber paddle design, different engines.  It's like a power squeegee.  Although if the snow is packed and driven over by tire tracks, it will not come off easily.  I use an metal ice scraper for this.  EOD is possible, the soft wet stuff does take time though.  My neighbor has the 221.  It performs great and he also know how to use it well.  He also clean around the mailbox so that the mail truck doesn't get stuck.  It's a little slow handling that wet heavy snow, but it can do it fine.  I did see it clogged with heavy wet snow once time, a little surprising, but  all the other times, it has worked fine.

Although for the EOD pile that is higher than the opening of the single stage, or when it is hard and crusty, I would use a 2 stage to tackle that.  The metal auger and the wheel drive does most of the work.  You can use a single stage, but it will take longer and require more work on the operator.

2 stroke are not really an issue, mix up a gallon or two of gasoline and that should last a while.  Just use a separate gas can and label it for the 2 stroke.

I don't recommend the electric Toro 1800 though.  Seem too lightweight to get anything done.  The molded plastic auger will not wipe the pavement as well as rubber paddle.  It may not make contact with the pavement at all.

I also don't like to deal with stiff frozen electrical cords and dragging that sludge/slush muddy salt back in the garage.  If you must go with something this small, consider the Power Clear 180.  It's a small 4 stroke snowblower for just a little more money than the 1800 + outdoor extension cord.  It is pretty low to the ground so your wife may be able to pullstart it.  Give it a go.

aa335 wrote:
Well, I saw a Toro Snow Commander and this thing is well built, very heavy.

I wonder how well these things perform compared to a compact 24" two stage machines.

Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be easier to scrape residual snow off the driveway with a wide snow shovel or ice rink shovel? I'm having trouble understanding how a single stage snow thrower would be easier to use to clean up what the two stage left behind. After all, there's just a skim of snow left behind which I find very easy to shove to the side with a rink shovel.

We have decided to buy the Toro 1028 *again*. The dealer we wanted to buy from same guy as the first time but he couldn't deliver it until after the holidays, we are getting a storm this weekend so we bought from another place. My wife was also concerned that they might still be mad at us for returning the first one. We will buy a couple of shovels for the slush. I tried the Toro 180 in the showroom pushing it back and forth. No idea how it blows snow but with no real self propulsion it seems like pushing a 50+ lb. shovel. They didn't have the bigger 221 or 421 and they don't ever use the 221/421 numbers they have dealer #'s.t They want $400 for the 180 and that seems a bit steep, and they can't get any 221/421's. I saw a push shovel online that angles left or right. That seems like it would be good enough to clear away slush by pushing it into a row and then blowing it with the 2 stage once it's 3-4 inches high. Toro single stages look like they would be awesome for walkways and decks.