Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was at a local Honda dealer yesterday and I was stunned by the prices on their snowblowers. In Canadian dollars, they were: 928 wheels: $3000 928 track: $3400 724 track: $3400 1132 track: $3500 I know they have tracks, hydro tranny, honda engines, etc. but they're at least $1000-1500 more than equivalent toro and ariens models. Is it gold, they re making?

Personally I fall under numbers 1 and 3,

To my misfortune, my wife did not see it the same way, thus the Simplicity that I bought for $1000 was still too much. She does not have a bad back though and only sees the inital investment, not the long term payback. (to its credit the Simp has performed rather well so far, with the 3" that I have had to deal with so far)

IMO the Honda seem to make a better piece of equipment, most of us aggree with that. Most also seem to aggree that they are expensive, so it comes to a decision, Steve you made the decision to buy it and look forward to years of reliability, Most notes I see here also indicate that big box units are not as reliable, or at least hit or miss no matter what the brand. That said in these economic times who can afford to drop $2500 or better US these days on something that sees 10-15 hours annual of use.

I don't want to boast nor rub anyone's nose in it, but if I wanted, I could have a garage full of Hondas. However, that's not how I'm made. I worked my a$$ off for over forty years to attain the level of comfort I enjoy today. I have always lived within my means and have serious disdain for frivolous spending. I'm certain that people will find a way to justify to themselves how and what they spend their money on. That's fine. If you can live with that, good. I just have a relentless, in-grained resentment for gouging. Honda dealers in Canada gouge us to the extreme, as per original poster's price examples. Despite the fact that I think Honda is either the best or one of the best snow throwers out there, I will not line the pockets of the Honda gougers with my money. Not when I can get a top notch domestic machine for two thousand dollars less that an equivalent Honda. That's two grand folks! I bought my 9.5 h.p. 28" Simplicity for $1500.00 all in. Fortunately for me, I have one of the last machines from the Wisconsin plant and it seems to be a very durable machine. It performs better than a neighbour's brand new HS724. I'm certain that if the engine blows, I can re-power it for less than $300.00. That leaves me with $1700.00 for more engines, parts or maybe even another brand new machine! Rant over. Happy holidays to everyone.

I think its a combination of paying for the brand name, and a good product.

The Honda 2-stage machines are great units.  Are they really 2x better than a premium Ariens, Simplicity, or Toro?  No - definitely not.  Are they slightly better - sure.

As far as the current honda single stages go, its entirely brand name.  They are nowhere near as good as the Toro single stages which are a cut above all the other ones.

My neighbor works for Honda and I raced a Honda in SCCA, so I have some good Honda info/insight in that regard.  He often has new Honda cars and OPE and I have a chance to use them.  Like anything with a "premium" image, you pay a price for that image.  Part of what you're paying for is engineering, and another part is brand.  Thats just the way those things work.

One of our cars is a Porsche, which we bought used.  I've worked on it extensively and by all accounts, it fits the same category.  The engineering is "meh", its difficult to work on, parts are expensive, and they often break.  Does it drive nice?  Yep, sure does.  Is it worth 2x a Corvette when brand new?  Definitely 100% no.  Do people think it is cooler?  Yep :-)

I can understand Borat that you wouldn't waste your money on a Honda. We get enough snow here to justiufy one. Just the ease of using the hydrostaic drive is a huge benefit. I had a Toro 1028 but returned it. It was almost $1,000 less. The botton line isn't that Honda is the Porsche of snow throwers but rather does it do what you want it to do? We had a warm spell so a lot of built up ice as cracking the the help of salt we put out. No way the Toro would have done anything but the tracks cracked that built up ice and we were able to clear 25% of the ice out there. If the next few days stay warm then even the places where it's 3 in thick will be gone. I'm sure the heavy snow is going to hit soon, it always does. The Honda does things the other machines didn't do that I needed. You can use a pitchfork to shovel snow but ultimately it's not going to do the job. Honda does overcharge for their machines and they give you less accessories than other brands. I had to buy a light for a $2500 Honda that would have come free on a $400 snow thrower for example. The SCCA reference is good but if you ran a Honda it could have been an S2000. I ran in B-stock (at the time - 1999 &2000) a Miata. The Miata was slower than the S2000 but it was dead reliable and fun as anything to drive. The S2000 was $35K at the time. My Miata was $22K. I think many peopel can use a Toro or Simplicity and have no issues. but when you add a grade, lots of ice buildup, heavy wet snow most storms and a lot of snow plus other factors for us we needed tracks and the ability to throw sluch and chip up the built up ice as well as heavy wet snow. If the Toro had done that it might have been different. My wife and I each have 2009 Honda Fits. Amazing cars! i owned one when i lived overseas whereit was called the Jazz. It competes with many cars but in the end it costs more and for us it's worth it.

No one brand will do everything, try before you buy and if it does the job and you can save over $1,000 then great. Canadian prices are high on most things. But you can buy in the US and it's not that hard to get here depending on where you live. Big savings buying here now that our money has parity. Just saying....

borat wrote:
The HS724 (6.5 HP, 24 inch) by my standard is underpowered and hardly a fair comparison to your Simplicity (9.5 HP/ 11 HP, 28 inch).  The HS724 engine displacement, blower / impeller section is sized significantly smaller than your Simplicity.   It is designed with lower volume capacity.  In fact, Honda had to step down the bucket intake height on track equipped models.  A reasonable compromise to prevent self destruction, typical conservative Japanese engineering.  I would guess that the hydro transmission and the tracks higher power requirement was taxing the small engine.

A fairer performance comparison would be the HS928 (9 HP, 28").  Even with that model, the Honda is biased towards throwing distance while trading for lower volumetric capacity.

aa335 wrote:
Dollar for dollar, which of the two, HS724 with tracks or the HS928 with wheels is the better machine or best bang for the buck?

superbuick wrote:

joed wrote:
I would pick HS928 with wheels and a light kit.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah. You're right it's not a fair comparison. However, neither is the $3400.00 vs $1500.00 in price now is it? So, from that point of view, comparing dollars to dollars, the comparison is more than fair. By rights, for that money, the Honda should be more than twice as good. My driveway is 110' x 18' with a 35'x35' turn around at the top. It also has a 10% grade. We get ice, slippery, wet snow, heavy deep snow, wind blown concrete snow and lots of it. The Simplicity does it all and does it well. So, my driveway is always clear. I do like Hondas, and I do not have Honda envy. That's for sure. However, I also like my Simplicity and really like the two thousand dollars still in my wallet.

Even if the Simplicity was $3400 and the Honda was $1500, the performance comparison would still not be fair. 

Even if you have or not have the money to spend, seldom you get 2x the performance for 2x the price.  The law of diminishing returns applies.  Also, the customer base rapidly decrease.

It may be foolish to spend $120,000 or more on a Porsche 911 GT2 when a Cadillac CTS-V offers similiar performance and carries 3 more passengers with a useable trunk and costs $40,000 less.  For the price of 1 Porsche, you can get 3 Buick Enclave, 40 cupholders, carries 21 people, and pull 3 trailers.  If someone gave me 3 Buick Enclave, I'd trade them all in for a Porsche 911.  Rational?  Not really.  Personal?  Yes.  Emotional?  Wholly yeah!   Or put that money towards a house, pay off loan sharks, have a blast in Vegas.  Choices.

There is a premium price for exclusivity.  Honda will continue to gouge customers, as long as Joe Irrational, Joe Rich, Joe I Need It, and Joe whatever continues to buy.  Apparently, they are doing well enough not to revert to cheapening their product.  Its lonely and vulnerable at the top.  Simplicity was at the top of their game, but not big enough not be bought out.  Can B&S let Simplicity to continue to deliver and target product and services to their customer base with higher expectations and deeper pockets?  Or will they keep milking the brand until people realize it is just marginally better than A, C, or T brands, and sold in the same showroom, presented by the same sales person?  Then Larry customer is going to decide based on paint colors, steel thickness, use of plastics, and features.  How is it that Toro command higher prices and still makes good sales numbers?  I don't know for sure, but I like their products.