Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hello..I think i have read all the other snow blower posts.I could not find the information i was looking for.

Looking for a relatively lightweight, relatively compact snow blower.Not electric..but single stage gas seems like it may be fine for our needs.
please advise, as i have a couple specific questions.

specs and details.( our personal specs)
older operator..needs something easy to use and self propelled and not too heavy or difficult to store.

do not want electric ( tried it..)

am looking at the new Toro Power clear series.
Either the 210R38587or 89..
OR
 421 Q 38588

i cannot find reviews for the power clear which tell me the following information.:
(this is where i need your help)

we have snow falls of about 8-10 inches pretty regularly throughout the winter. I think these above machines will handle that.
*****If anyone has experience with them, advice gratefully will be received.***

MY MAIN QUESTION: can THESE MACHINES also handle snow which the city snow blowers have made into "mountains" at the end of the driveway?
The chutes appear to be about 8 inches tall in these blowers.. at least in the 210R.

We would have to 'run the snow blower straight into the mountain," and let it munch up and chew and blow the snow away from there.

hopefully someone here can help.
many thanks
alice

The 210 will be more powerful than the 421 - otherwise they share the same design and are the exact same size (though the 421 will be heavier because it uses a heavier, less powerful 4-stroke engine). Do not let the published specs fool you - the 210 is more powerful, less expensive, and the better choice. The only thing the 421Q has going for it is the Quick Shoot - which is also available on the 221Q 38583. You'll be fine using a big single stage like the Toro to tackle your end-of-driveway (EOD). What you lose in efficiency at the end (it will be slower going than with a bigger 2-stage snowblower) you will make up in maneuverability and time to remove the snow from the rest of the driveway.

thank you very much.,SuperbuicK !!

PS.. i asked a question when you gave me some information on another website.
I will also post it here, incase you miss it , thinking i do not need your information..
It is at the bottom of this post..

Your information  is re assuring. I think we will do well with a Toro.

I went to the dealer to look at the machines.

Wow.. 21 inches wide and 80 pounds might be more than we can handle and store.

I guess my 'guesstimator' was rather shy of the true. When i made the original post, i only guessed at the size and weight..

When i saw the machines in the showroom, the Power clear 210 R and 421 Q,...yes, they are HEFTY MACHINES.
And they are selling like hot cakes..Now is one of the times to buy..
Probably end of season would have the best buys, but now is when we will need to deal with it.

i think what you said about the above Toro's is really true, however.. I think they would nicely tackle any smaller or mid sized  job.

I hope this thread will help other people...who are looking for a new snow blower.

Toro also makes some new machines..Not as beefy as the ones mentioned, but slightly less wide (16") and less heavy ( 57 pounds) ..which might be better for us old folks.
PowerLite 38282..

I am sure it is not as efficient as the two i asked about., however, and there are no consumer reviews for them yet.

We have not made a final decision..but  we are still considering ALL the pros and cons.

You said that you have a Powerlite.. How do you like it? or, since it is so new, have you test driven it yet?

Once again, Superbuick, many thanks for your help.Much appreciated.

alice

In terms of mobility, you won't notice any difference between the 2 unless you are lifting them up. The powerlite and the power clear 221/210/421 will be equally mobile and "light" when on the ground on their wheels. I have an old CR20 which is small and light and I notice no difference wheeling it around than I do the 221QR, which is bigger and heavier. I also responded to your other post elsewhere :-)

thank you once again, Super.

yes, i guess they are all about the same weight..

i guess i am thinking of 'off season' or if we have to move it around in tight areas like a storage shed or garage..

more thinking to myself than anything else..

Size is another factor as our storage area is not HUGE..( and already contains a fair amount of machinery, etc.)

which is really one of the reasons i may be considering the power Lite.

it is 18 inches and the others are 21 inches.
not a huge difference, but some difference when you are counting the inches of space.


cheerio
and thanks again,
alice

Although I have no experience with single stage snow throwers, I do understand their operating principles and question how well the revolving paddles will deal with lumpy, frozen end of driveway snow deposits. A two stage with steel augers, more weight and driven wheels, can gnaw and carve into the hard snow but even with this advantage, I've had days when it was pretty difficult using a top notch snow thrower. Problem is that the snow the ploughs push to the side is often packed by vehicular traffic. It doesn't take long for the plough deposit to set up if left only for a short time. I'm having trouble imagining a single stage snow thrower getting the job done with the end of driveway deposits that I'm used to seeing. I can see the need for a shovel to break things up in order to use a single stage on that stuff. Suggest Alice to negotiate a deal with a neighbour who has a two stage to tackle the e.o.d. stuff if the going gets too tough for the single stage.

Thank you ,Borat..

Those are some significant things to think about.

I did ask the sales man if he thought the small machine could tackle the mountains EDS ( are those the correct initials..i am thinking of End of Driveway Snow )?

He said that if we were to chop up the mounds into small chunks that we could safely remove it without problem.

i have been thinking to myself also: "what if there is ice from frozen salted slush." ?
I read that that can cause something to shear...

does not sound good.

We are on a new development area and there are only a few lots with homes on them.. No one has been there for the winter yet..
so we do not know who will have a two stage blower.

i was even thinking maybe we should find a snow plow guy to do this part of it..but some of them ( unless they have good references or are well known for their care) are the pits as far as slicing lawns and making messes.

well , more things to consider,.. thank you.


PPS.. the Toro sales person i spoke to today says that for some reason we should be using MID GRADE GAS in our machines..Something about the regular grade not working well..
anyone heard of that?

alice

First I've heard of using mid grade gas. Not sure why. All two stroke engines and four stroke OPE engines that I've owned run fine on regular fuel. As a matter of fact, I also run regular fuel in all of my motorcycles, ATVs, and automobiles. You might want to ask the salesperson why he recommends mid grade fuel.

i'm a big fan of single stage snowblowers and the toros are the way to go, imo, if buying one - i have owned several and they are great machines.  having said this if storage space and time was not an issue i would probably recommend a mid sized 2 stage snowblower in your situation - something like an ariens deluxe 24.  more versitile and able to handle more snow situations.  with a single stage, it will get through the EOD but not w/o having to use a shovel to break up etc and this in itself can be a chore.  with a 2 stage you are getting a machine that has a drive mechanism and able to handle more diffucult snowfalls.

No offense to the guys on this board who also work at OPE shops (and have great knowledge thatt hey share with us) but I've found every sales guy at OPE shops to have extremely poor product knowledge.  There is no reason to use mid grade gas at all - it offers no benefit. 

With regards to solid ice at the end of the driveway, a single stage is not ideal for this.  Icy/slushy snow will be fine, but solid ice - a two stage is better.  Everywhere else I've found the single stage to be a bit faster to work with and clear all the way to the pavement.

IMO I think the 210R will get damaged with the EOD. Those paddles will probably brake apart with hard iced and compacted EOD.

superbuick wrote:
From my experience, there are some OPE sales guy that are new and don't know their stuff, and some farts that know their stuff but aren't willing to share or educate the average consumer.  They fear that once you're armed with knowledge and made an informed decision, you'll quickly run to Home Depot to save 20 bucks. 

"IMO I think the 210R will get damaged with the EOD. Those paddles will probably brake apart with hard iced and compacted EOD."
I have never seen a set of Toro paddles destroyed by EOD in my area. (Southern Ontario)
I'm not saying that it has never happened in the history of mankind, but the paddles are pliable and tend too stop when they encounter rocks or ice. They can burn belts, but people generally let go of the bails before that happens.
Steel augers dont fare as well when they take a hit and replacing shear pins can be a pain in the butt that some dont want too deal with. Repairs can get expensive.
EOD is the toughest part of snowblowing. Knowing what you are dealing with will determine how you approach getting rid of it.
Powering thru it is one method, but its not the only way.

 

MY MAIN QUESTION: can THESE MACHINES also handle snow which the city snow blowers have made into "mountains" at the end of the driveway?

Basically, no. But you also want a lighter machine (which is still 80 lbs. or so) that's easier to store. There's no real way to reconcile those 2 criteria, IMO. The EOD snow/ice mountain can be difficult for  even a 24" 7-8 hp 2 stage snow blower, & they weigh what, 200 lbs roughly? Here in E. Mass., I wind up "chopping" the EOD mass with a metal snow shovel. Then there are big heavy snow/ice "chunks", like small boulders, that I have to pick up & throw off the driveway. I wonder if even the largest 2 stage snow blowers can get thru EOD where it's partly turned to large ice chunks?

Not  saying not to try a single stage, if you can deal with the EOD mess with a shovel. And/Or check out snow plow truck guys in your area; where I am, $30-$40 per blizzard, problem solved, in about 10 minutes......

I doubt that there is a consumer grade snow thrower that will process solid chunks of thick ice. Particularly anything over 4" thick. That would be enough to bend the augers, possibly jamb the impeller and block the ejection hole. Two inch thick probably. Three in maybe. Anything over... well.....I have my doubts.

Some of the newer two stage snowblowers have serrated auger that is designed to chip away at the ice.  However, ramming this auger into solid ice is puts a lot of stress on the snowblower, which is not designed for this kind of duty on for extended periods.  A snowblower is designed to blow snow, not as a ice grinder. 

However, there are ways to reduce the stress and shock transmitted such as salting and chipping away as much of the ice as you can.  Also, try to clear the EOD pile as soon as you can and not wait for to compact and harden.  From a safety standpoint, I would not want the snowblower to be throwing solid objects such as ice any distance.

If, as I do, you live in an area that remains snowcovered from late Nov thru late April, you may want to consider giving up some ground to the EOD. I know that's heresy, but hear me out.

EOD sucks, but is it really necessary to remove it with every pass of the snowplow? For me, the answer is no. You don't want a mountain built up, but a small hump is not likely to trap anyone in their driveway. We get a lot of snow here, often for days on end - and it would be a full-time job eliminating EOD. My wife and I both have full-time jobs, and mother nature doesn't always respect our schedules - know what I mean?

Prompt action will help keep EOD under control. But unless you're available 24/7 to do battle, it's impossible to keep a clean apron between you and the street under these conditions. I'm not saying just give up, but consider MANAGING, as opposed to eliminating the problem.

For Example:
If your driveway has little or no slope, a small or moderate EOD hump is unlikely to prevent egress. Likewise, if your drive slopes down toward the street, the same holds true. If your drive slopes UP to the street, that can be a bit trickier - but still managable. The lay of the land is a key factor here, so adjust your expectations accordingly.

Once a mini glacier establishes itself beneath the snow, I tend to co-exist with it. Not once have I become hung up in EOD while backing out - and that's without using 4WD. The secret is to keep the powder cleaned off so the sun can harden and flatten it over time (like an ice road). That's not too difficult, even if you can't get to it after every snowfall (which can be every day for two weeks). I've been through it all, folks - the shingle scrapers, the splitting mauls, everything short of a jackhammer. Soon as you're finished, that SOB in the plow truck comes around and starts the whole cycle over again. Rather than raise my blood pressure, I've chosen to accept EOD as a fact of life. All about shades of grey, my friends.

If you get to the plow pilings promply after each heavy snowfall, that's usually enough to keep the hump under control. For this purpose, either of the Toro models you mentioned should work just fine. I use the 421Q, and it hasn't let me down yet. I wouldn't buy a two-stage model, unless you anticipate non-EOD depths of 20+ inches on a regular basis. Even the big boys have trouble with solid EOD.