Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I am shopping for a snowblower and cannot find anyone with accurate reliablilty of any of the major brands. I read consumer reports, but they do not list anything about long term investment. I am leary of thier top pick as I have seen issues with that brand of motor elsewhere. I am likely to buy a 2 stage 9 horse (300cc ) as i live on a cul-du-sac adn get plowed in pretty regualrly.

I also am trying to be considerate of my 5'9" wife and her ability to use anything, and my over eager 11year old son that is 5'

Anyone that can help?

I have been doing alot of shopping and research.  The best quality and ease of use (fingertip steering) is the Toro 828 OXE.  but its costs alot - $1699.  I had someone show it to me, top to bottom and it really does blow away all the rest.  Ariens and Snapper (simplicity) are also high quality, but the toro has some features those just don't have.  A nice Ariens in the size you are looking for would propbably be $1000-$1200.

I've looked at everything out there, Husqvarna, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy-bilt, Ariens............the only one i really feel like it'll last me 20-25 years is the toro.  i'm just trying to talk myself into spending the money

That is great information, I appreciate the resource. I also only want to buy this one for a long term, I woudl not have any problem spending that if the quilty is truly there.

 I have the concern that my wife only sees the  inital investment and cannot see the overall, but then when I pose that side of the argument I am being selfish and only want to buy the most expensive. I feel that you get what you pay for, if i could get by wiht a single stage i have hear very favorable things about the Honda HS520 single stage, but I am afraid  that I would just be overtaxing it with my conditions.

I don't think height is something you should really be looking at(they all seem to be the same height now),I more would be looking at what your wife/son can handle weight wise,when they have to turn the machine around etc (Dead weight)

The reason i say this is because i'm maybe 5'7 and bought this in Jan and never had a problem other then my arms get tired when doing the ice/snow from the plow at the bottom of the driveway as I have to re-postion it even through I have 6 Fwd Speeds and 2 reverse ones.

fatty I dont know who you have been talking to but Toro is definitely not the best quality.Maybe its the easiest to use but not the best quality.Snowmann compared the ariens to the toro and the ariens gear box was more robust,better built than the toro.If you love plastic,get the toro.If you want quality get the Simplicity pro machine.And the Simplicity machines come with the B&S snow series max engines.The toro and ariens only come with the snow series engine.There's always Honda if money is no object.

skier1 wrote:
Depends on if your wife is comfortable pushing a lawn mower and have used it on several occasions. I could not see my wife even pushing a 21" lawn mower, and even less so of her using a a single stage snowblower.

In the case of your son, he will grow into whatever snowblower you buy. Or it will be a novelty for a short while and he would never use it again.

Operating a 2 stage snowblower can be extremely dangerous and damaging to property. I would take that into consideration before letting anyone else operate it.

Reliability depends largely on how you take care of your equipment and matching it to the job. A 9 HP, 24-27" two stage would be powerful and maneuverable for residential use.

Toro is nowhere near the value of other leading brands. They cannot substantiate the exorbitant price of the machines they sell. There was a day when they were worth more, but that is no longer the case. As previously mentioned, you can get better machines for a lot less money, (Simplicity, Snapper, Ariens) are very good machines provided you buy their top of the line models. If I were going to spend the kind of money Toro wants, it would be on a Honda. I own a Simplicity 9528. It's a great machine for the money!

borat wrote:
True. The old Toros were built like brick houses. They weigh like bricks too.

It's Toro exorbitant prices that makes Honda prices less painful. $2300 for a 7hp/24-inch Honda, anyone??? *wink" ... Discount? "We'll throw in a quart of oil and an extra shear pin" Negotiations done!

aa335 wrote:
If I had no other choices, I'd bite the bullet and buy the Honda. Unless things have recently changed, the Toro is still using the ancient Tecumseh L head engine??? I'd also venture to say that little Honda would likely out-work, out-perform and out-last the Toro given equal maintenance. Toro isn't a bad product. I just find it annoying as hell how they tend to rest on their laurels to gouge consumers. The 828LXE is listed at $1699.00 USD. That's $1800.00 CDN. Put 13% taxes on that and you're looking at over 2 grand! I'd pay $1200.00 for that 828LXE. Not a cent more. When you look at the numbers, the Honda is within easy reach of the Toro.

I paid $1500.00 CDN (all in)for a brand new 2007 Simplicity 9528 with a 305 cc B&S engine. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever to put it up against that Toro in any aspect of comparison other than unnecessary gizmos. At prices like that, Toro would be my last choice.

The one thing that I forgot to mention as i started looking is that Simplicity Pro's and the other Large frame machines are very well built. After I visited my local dealer, which sells Honda, Toro, Ariens, Snapper, Huskvarna, and Simplicity, i noticed the quality on the Simplicity. I was going to bite the bullet on a 09 1528, but a glance for more options over the $1700 for the machine, I found exactly what I was looking for on Craigs list. An older gentlemen that needed something, did his research and had bought an early 09 1424 late last winter, and now due to leg problems, cannot get around well and has a grandson that plows. i am getting the blower for $1000 flat.

Best of both worlds I get all the hardware( cast gears, same box as the Pro's, easy steer...) barely warmed up for 30% off.

gotta love Craigs List...

i will keep all apprised of the usage opinion once the snow flies and we attach old man winter.

thanks for all the input and opinions!

Doug

borat wrote:
For 2009, the Toro 2 stage snowblowers are equipped with Briggs OHV engines.  Their model designation changed from LXE (L-head) to OXE (OHV).   For the average homeowner, they may not realize, know, or care about the difference between side valve and OHV.

My experience with Toro is only with 21" walkbehind mower.  It is not cheap or is too expensive.  Toro isn't the last word in robustness or power.  However, considering the price, they do make a well rounded product with some user friendly gizmos that makes operating it more convenient and enjoyable.  Around my area, Toro service support by small dealerships are everywhere, supplanted by Ace Hardware.

I do agree with you that Toro prices are a high when compared to similiarly sized and equipped snowblowers.  Part of that price difference maybe due to Toro's wider service support and the inclusion user friendly and evolved gizmos that are either loved or chastised.  For whatever reason, that is a personal preference.  I don't find that Toro 2 stage snowblowers are questionably flimsy.  In fact, I personally think that they are sufficiently robust.  They are designed smartly and Toro has not chosen to go the easy route by using thicker material and adding unnecessary weight, both of which are not always a true an indicator of robustness, but more of consumer perception of quality and reliability.

With that said, I am a fan of Simplicity higher models, Toro, and Honda.  These 3 brands have good focus on specific market of consumers.  Ariens is a good name and makes good products also, but the market focus too large and diluted with a dizzying array of product lines.  You really have to research hard to find which product suits your requirements and pocket book. 

Having a broad range of dealer support might add a few bucks to the cost of producing a machine. However, I'm not buying that as a sufficient reason for their out of line pricing. It would also appear that Toro's "license to steal" attitude has influenced the local Toro dealer to act the same. Unfortunately for me, I had to buy an air filter for my Husquvarna lawn tractor from the local Toro dealer. While I was there, a fellow was looking for a bolt that had fallen off of his lawn mower. I was completely shocked when the dealer asked $5.95 for a ten cent bolt! And he did it with a straight face. I actually told the dealer that he was sticking it to the customer. How could he charge that kind of price for a bolt? He said that they go through the trouble to keep them in stock and that's what the Toro parts price is! Another guy walked in looking for a crank for a B&S motor that he was rebuilding. The dealer quoted him $395.00 just for the crank! The guy almost keeled over. He said he just missed the same brand new crank on Ebay for $30.00. I asked the dealer why so much for the crank. His reply was that B&S jacked up the prices so that people wouldn't repair the older engines and prompt them to buy a new one. Give me a break..... Consumers have to stand up to this crap. As you can plainly see, I have no use nor respect for the local Toro dealer. After those two episodes, I've never and will never set foot in that dealership again.

I would never support any local dealer with that kind of highway robbery practices. I don't mind paying extra for the convenience of not having to drive to hardware store to find nuts and bolts. But when the price is 3+ times the actual price, forget it.

I also don't care for local dealers that bad mouth big box stores. I dont mind buying throwaways stuff when local dealers are charging me for repairs that amount to 80% of a new one.

aa335 wrote:

That is an excellent, excellent point.  Unless you have the ability and/or time and patience to do repairs yourself, repairs too often do not cost-benefit.  Even Consumer Reports flat-out tells people not to bother repairing lawn mowers -- just buy a new one, they say.  The situation creates a vicious cycle where everything becomes disposable.  At that point, unit cost, retail price, and volume trumps everything.  And under such circumstances -- where the consumer has an expectation of disposability and limited service life -- the big boxes serve the market better than any small dealer can.  It's sad, but true.

Yes, it is a vicious cycle. I try not to contribute to this. But shellac happens and people learn.

My brother in law bought a used $80 Craftsman mower with a Honda GC160 engine from a garage sale. He was told it was recently tuned up, whatever that means nowadays. It didn't run or start consistently. He took it to a local OPE repair shop. $200 and 4 weeks later, still didn't run very well and hard to start. Dealer blamed it on bad gas. So that's $280 down the tubes. Now that was not the best purchase and decision to put $200 towards repair of a $80 mower. But would it serve him better if this local dealer advised him to consider a new mower altogether or a new engine transplant? Or $xxx/hr shop rate means he's not going to get an engine. I don't know what kind of service was performed for $200, but I would have walked out with just paying for the diagnostic cost and call it a learning experience.

Sorry, not to rant too much. But there are people that are not mechanically inclined that gets ripped off. In their case, it would serve them better just to throw away and get a new one. I'm sure with todays tough EPA regulations, using fresh gas and properly maintain your engines is more important than ever. How about OPE dealers educate people on proper feeding and care of their engines instead of sticking the shaft to people for their ignorance?

How about OPE dealers educate people on proper feeding and care of their engines instead of sticking the shaft to people for their ignorance?

An honorable gesture. However, there's no money it that.

I know it's not fair to paint all dealers with the same brush but, the number of straight shooters in dealerships of any kind are relatively rare. They are in business to make money, not friends. In smaller communities where word of mouth travels fast and victims are far and few between, dealers tend to be good people. In the larger urban centers where potential customers are in sufficient numbers to perpetuate even the sleaziest dealers, you will find greater concentrations of deceitful dealerships. Ignorance is expensive. If more people participated in forums such as this and shed their fear of the unknown, they could invest the money they squander at a dealership on some decent tools instead. The nice thing about making your first repair is the confidence it inspires in a person. Most of the problems encountered with OPE can be fixed with minimum investment provided the person has taken the time to do some research, ask a few questions and obtain clear instructions. I know of two instances this year where two neighbours paid big bucks to have some oil drained from an over filled engine and another to have a carburetor replaced when in fact, it only had to be cleaned. Both jobs were doable by any novice with basic tools and good instructions. I actually offer to help one of them but they decided the mower needed a tune up and brought it to the dealer. Two weeks and $400.00 later, they got their mower back. The mower had sat in a heated garage unused for several years. All it need was to have the carb cleaned. The dealer told them that the carb had to be replaced..... Hence the $400.00 repair bill! I offered to fix it for free. Live and learn.

I don't see a difference between any of the brands anymore (except honda). Even Simplicity is starting to cheap out, and their older machines are tanks compared to what is being sold. They're pulling the same crap as Ariens now, with a stripped down model. Still, the "dealer" machine feels pretty rugged.

Honda is over-priced. I think their machines are 3x as good as the junk sold at Home Depot, but I don't think the actual act of snow removal via a snowblower is worth what they charge. At full-price, I'd just as soon buy garbage every 2-3 years and keep money in the bank in case global warming picks up speed.

That being said, my 1132TAS is still sleeping under its tarp in the shed, waiting............

Can't say that I agree with buying garbage every few years rather than laying out the cash for a decent machine. First of all, we're supporting sub-par quality production and more importantly, having a failure prone, poorly designed machine that can barely blow your hat off would be frustrating indeed. I have no problem paying the right price for a good quality snow thrower. The $1500.00 that I spent on the pre-Briggs and Stratton Simplicity two years ago, was money well spent. It was a very good value and I'm certain that neither Simplicity nor the dealer didn't lose their shirt selling it for that price. I'd say that knowledgeable people know that a premium must be charged for quality. However, when the premium remains and quality slides as we are seeing with the leading domestic manufacturers, the consumer is being taken advantage of. Particularly brand loyalists who have trusted a manufacturer for decades. Those of us who have been fortunate enough to have purchased the last of the well built, reasonably priced machines would be wise to take very good care of them. The future is not looking too bright for high quality, reasonably priced domestic OPE. If the domestics continue to cheapen their products, we'll be left with no choice other than to shell out big money for Honda, Yamaha and who knows, maybe some new Chinese or other foreign upstarts!

Borat,