Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I really like my Ariens 11528.  But my Tecumseh 11.5 HP OHV engine has been nothing but trouble.  It had to go in the shop right after I bought it almost 2 years ago because the recoil starter would pull halfway out and then snap back into the engine with a vengeance.   Got that fixed.  Now today It won't start.  When I press the primer bulb gas squirts out from under the engine and onto the floor.  Any ideas would be appreciated because even though it's still under warranty it will cost me $60 for the dealer to pick it up. 

From page24 of the Tec. manual-"Pressure on the primer bulb forces air through the primer channel directly to fuel in the carburetor bowl. The pressure forces fuel through the pick-up tube into the throat of the carburetor for initial starting."

1)make sure the carburetor bowl is seated tightly against the carb gasket and body. Reach under the heater box and check the bowl to make sure it is not loose.(Not likely)

2)How many times did you push the bulb and how long did you hold it in? Two or three times not holding it for  longer than a momment should be sufficient. It is possible to over prime and in the extreme have fuel drip out of the carb.(Not Likely) 

3) Shut the fuel valve and see if you still have the fuel comming out on to the floor when you prime the engine. If not I suspect it is not your primer  but rather your float is not shutting off fuel flow to the carb when the bowl is full. Remove the dip stick and check to see if the oil level is overfull. Smell the oil for  the presence of gas . The odor of gas in the oil, a high reading on the dip stick accompanied by  gas flowing out of the carb throat is a sure sign of a sticky float/ needle/ seat. I would think this is more than likely your problem. 

Do you leave the gas valve open between uses? If so and the float/needle /seat is incompetent pushing the primer will cause your symptom because the carb is already awash in fuel. It has two places to go-into the crankcase and/ or out the throat onto the floor.

Marc 

mml4 wrote:
Thanks Marc.  I described the problem to the service manager at the dealership and he felt the same as you...that it was most likely a sticky float needle. 

Interesting because the machine was in the shop after last season to have the recoil starter fixed.  They fixed it, ran the tank dry and delivered it back to me last June.  This was my first attempt to use it this season.  I put fresh gas in it and followed the starting instructions step by step.  There isn't any gas in the oil...just on the floor after a few pushes on the primer bulb. 

I don't know how to fix it so it's off to the dealer again tomorrow.  It's under warranty but the pick up charge is $60. 

No big deal but I did come to a major conclusion based on my experience with this messed up goofy engine.  Any outdoor power equipment that I ever buy in the future is going to have an engine made by Honda, or Subaru, or Kawasaki, etc.  I don't really care which one just so it's name ends in a vowel and it comes from an Island located the NE pacific ocean. 

We have an eight year old Ariens at work that does the same thing.  We took it to the dealer for a tune up in the fall and told them about the primer bulb.  They said it is supposed to do that.  I don't believe that for one minute, and immediately decided I wouldn't take my snowblower to that dealer.  I tend to agree with the stuck float diagnosis.

Paul- The same thing could happen to a Honda,Kawasaki,Robin,Yamaha that happened to your Tec. The gas we get today goes bad in a very short time and wreaks havoc with the carburetors of every manufacturers equiptment. I'm certainly not a pro but I have found if you pay strict attention to the fuel you won't experience problems.

1) shut the fuel valve off after  each use

2)run the engine till it stalls after shutting off the valve in order to run the fuel out of the fuel line

3) place a rag on your finger and push up on the spring loaded drain pin on the bottom of the bowl after every use

4)  At the end of the season the tank gets drained absolutely dry and the carb and fuel line emptied as above

This regimen is a pain in the a$$ but you won't be paying $60 pick up fees or being voted customer of the year at your local dealer.

Marc

mml4:

Not to question your advice but, personally, I'd say that's over-kill.    Do you do that with an automobile that is carbureted?     I do a similar routine at the end of the season but not after every use.  If you use clean fuel and a bit of Seafoam every now and then, your carb should be fine.

Some comments on primer action.

 

After using quite few machines I found there is a great variation in their operation.  Some primers deliver a lot of gas on a light push and others hardly any at all.  Some require repeated pumping to get a little.

 

I’ve found that just about all carbs will leak gas if pumped enough.

 

What could be the difference?  Internal and external primer circuit would make a difference.  A slight seal air leak will deliver pressure but less and full so require a few primes.  The amount of gas in the bowl would make a difference.  The float could be at its low point so the blow less than full.  Gas will be delivered but less.

 

The amount of pressure would make a difference.  Some carbs have a large air vent hold above the idle mixture screw.  Some have a tiny hole which would back up pressure more.  How hard the primer is pressed makes a difference i.e. a soft steady push versus a sharp jab.  A slow push would allow more air to escape out of the vent delivering less gas and requiring more pushes.

 

It’s possible the poster had never noticed gas dripping until recently and operating normally.  It’s also could be due to a problem as noted in other posts. 

 

I usually have cold start a machine a number of times to get that reliable first pull start.  I eventually learn the “sweet spot” of the primer and get the gas right – not too much for flooding or gas out of the throat but enough to get a rich mix for a good start.

 

Since priming will flood the carb and/or make gas run out of the throat the right spot has to be found.  That happens with the fewest primes to deliver enough to get a reliable start. If your machine will start well with one good prime more will be overkill.

 

The original post said the machine would not start and gas dripping out.  It’s possible that after repeated attempts he just primed too much and the expected happened.  The check would be to see if the plug got wet.  If gas can’t get up to the plug on repeated primes something is wrong but since the post said gas is leaking out of the throat and not start I would think gas got to the plug and got wet. 

 

It takes a clean carb and all the circuits working to start easily.  If the circuits are plugged and only the primer delivering gas then it will start but not as good as when everything is working properly.  Flooding will be more likely to happen along with gas out of the throat when primed more to get a start. 

 

Another thing is the angle of the machine.  My driveway has lots of humps and just how a machine is sitting adds a bit to how easy it will be for the gas to go out of the throat or heat into the carb. 

 

Gas out of the throat is pretty normal.  A slightly fouled plug might be hindering an easy start and repeated primes causing gas out of the throat which would be expected.

borat wrote:

Borat- It is over-kill in most areas  where guys get to use their machines on a weekly basis. Unfortunately in down state New York we get snow so infrequently that the evaporation /varnish issue is magnified ten fold. I haven't used my two stage once in the last two years because there hasn't been any snow over 4". As you know the carbs are vented and over time even the treated fuel will evaporate. The problem has gotten even worse since they went from MTBE to ethanol in the gas.

 Pretty much if you void the system you don't have the problem.

Marc

mml4 wrote:
The weird thing about this even was that last June the snowblower was dealer serviced for the season...which included running the tank dry.  This was the first attempt to use it this season and the gas was very fresh...pumped that morning.  The dealer picked it up today and said he'd have it back to me tomorrow.  

yeah l would have to agree with borat that seems a little extreme measures its diffently a year end thing, l would recommend using a stablizer in your gas if its going to sit around for a while, l personally use it anyway, and l highly recommend putting some seafoam two or three times a year that stuff works great its only about  $10 a can at your local auto parts store.

Got it back from the dealer and the float needle was varnished up...even though the machine was run dry last June.   The dealer suggested that I leave gas in the tank with a fuel stabilizer to prevent the problem going forward.   How long can a product like Stabil stabilize gas?

Not sure how long it will stabilize fuel.  You might want to do some research to find out.  I prefer Seafoam to Stabil.  Seafoam is a multi purpose product that does a better job than Stabil and keeps your fuel system clean and aids in removing carbon from piston crown and valves.  It also works as a fuel line antifreeze and absorbs water.

Paul7 wrote:

He ran the tank dry but probably didn't drain the carburetor bowl. Varnish can't form in the carb if  fuel isn't present. I use stabilizer as well but have found it only delays the inevitable.

However,I fully admit to being more than a little obsessive when it comes to fuel .

Marc

mml4 wrote:
Correct.  I asked the dealer how to prevent this going forward and he said to add a fuel stabilizer to the gas just leave gas in the tank over the off season.  In my area we have a 3 month snow season , Jan - March.  I'm not sure that a fuel stabilizer will prevent varnish for 9 months.  So now I'm definitely going to drain the carb bowl after I run it dry. 

I had a backwards issue.  I am pressing the primer bulb and I am not getting ANY fuel to inject into the carb throat.  It sounds like air hissing back and forth.  I popped the carb off, float is loose, the needle looks good, w/o taking it out.  Nothing seems to be clogged yet the hissing comes from this port that I believe you all are talking about is where the excess gasoline escapes when over primed,  THis does not seem normal to me.  Is there a check of some kind that may be tarnished over or something?  Please let me know. Thanks.