Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi all, new to this forum after having searched for a solution to my surging hs 1132.
Among the several problems I've had with this machine is the severe pulling to the right when the bucket is in the mid or low position. I've put it on a flat surface and adjusted the shoes and scraper to manual specs and no luck. Shoes are even and scraper is even so no misalignment there. I've tried to adjust the shoes and scraper to counter the pull but nothing worked. Track tension is even. This is a pretty frustrating problem as I clean a long drive and fight against the pull the whole time - tiring and forget it if my wife ever has to run the machine. As usual, my honda dealer is no help whatsoever. I had to inform them of the icing kit I learned of on this forum after three years of bugging them about the surging, backfiring problem I was having.

Is it scraping on the ground as you drive? If you position it with the bucket in air is the problem stillthere?   There's no differential so unless there's a problem with the actual rubber trac I don't think that's it either.  My unit seems to want to pull into the direction of harder snow, as the bucket gets snagged on that corner but it doesn't sound like that's your problem.  I've got the same issue with my wheeled ariens.

We have an 1132 at work and the first thing I noticed last year while using it for the first time was it surged up and down unless the choke was pulled out just a touch. Second thing was it pulled to the right extremely bad. Everything was adjusted to spec. I ordered the optional side skids and installed them. It fixed the pulling. I love the wheeled Honda units but really do not like the tracked machines. I would rather my personal wheeled hs624 over a brand new 1132.

I think the idea of the rear shoes is to be in line with the path of the wheels.  I had a 828 wheeled honda that when I backed it up into my shed I would occasionally clip one of the shoes (easily done in reverse) on the edge of the wood, and that would bend the shoe and then my bucket wouldn't be straight.  The shoes on my 1132 are MUCH thicker and I think I'd have less of an issue with this, but then again this machine is much heavier and would probably do the same thing if you snagged and edge going backwards.

I think the side shoes would fix this.  I  can't think of any real advantage to the original shoes, but maybe they keep support under the center of the bucket so as you go under uneven ground the middle scraper edge isn't getting hammered as much.

Thanks for the replies. I plan on ordering the optional side mounted tracks and hopefully that will fix the problem. I cleaned my pond off today for skating - nice level surface- and the pull to the right was extreme.

If it's pulling that badly on sheer ice, it sound more like a drive issue than skids.   Have you tried jacking the machine up off of the ground to see if there might be a problem with one of your drive wheels.  If it pulls strongly to the right, the right side wheel/track mechanism might be compromised.  Does your Honda have plastic or metal drive wheels?  Do the drive wheels have splines or a pin through them to lock onto the drive axle?   If it's pulling as badly as you say, I'd be taking a close look at the drive components. 

borat wrote:  
A drive issue is what I was thinking since no matter how I adjusted the shoes or scraper the machine still pulled.
The tracks are in good shape. Wheels are plastic and everything seems to be ok with them.
I've got to get the shop manual to see what kind of adjustments might be made to the drive components. The machine is a misery to use unless it's in the high position.

borat wrote:
I think this is the most likely problem.  One of the pins that lock the shaft to the crawler wheels may have been sheared.  Essentially, power is only delivered to one side of the tracks.

aa335 wrote: Nothing sheared and the shaft/wheel assembly appears to be sound. I just got in from checking it all out and one thing I notice is that when the machine is in the high position and you try rocking the handles nothing moves - the tracks appear to be even on the ground. But when I lower it to mid or low I can push down on the handles and the machine rocks as though the tracks aren't resting evenly. Everything visually seems in order so all I can guess is that possibly somethings warped. It's been like this from the get go but i don't usually clean in the lower positions because I have stone mix driveway surface.

Have to say though that having much experience with honda power equipment, for the cost of this machine I'm not impressed and regret purchasing it. My dealer just sold me the de-icing carb kit and they wouldn't warranty  it even though I've been complaining about engine surging, backfiring, and occasional loss of power since my first season with the blower. I understand honda posted a bulletin on this kit because of problems with icing in the carb. $2400 blower (3k today!) and they make me purchase a fix for honda dropping the ball on engineering on this model.

  

dfvellone wrote:

Yes, it will rock a bit, about 1/4 to 1 inch at most.  I thought my bucket/chassis was bent when I first did this, but after close examination, I found that the rocking was due to the two tracks not in synch with one another. The two track contact points (ridges) are not always the same.  In addition the two rear skid shoes are right behind the bucket, just a few inches in front of the tracks.    I now have the side skid shoes and the rocking have disappeared.

Can you try to turn it with the engine off and the bucket up?  Do you find that it is harder to turn left than turning right?

I am telling you. I honestly hate the tracked Honda's. I think the 928 wheeled machine is the one to get. I have the 624 wheeled at home and love it. Brand new 11hp tracked at work and I try not to use it and use the Ariens when it will move. I agree that for the money you spent it should be perfect. The only plus is that if you list it on Craigslist you can sell it quick at a little loss and buy the 928 wheeled unit that I would bet the farm you would love. But once soured you might never want a honda product again.

Knee_Biter wrote:

Tracked snowblowers are not easy to turn.  They are slow and heavy, and require a lot more effort to operate.  Most dealers I spoke to would not even try to sell a tracked snowblower, they just don't want to deal with hearing the complaints afterwards.  They would love to steer you towards a wheeled Honda if you are so enamored by the Honda brand.  I was frustrated with using my Honda tracked snowblower the first month I used it. 

However, after some time of developing my technique and setting skid height and scraper bar, I'm getting more comfortable with it.  This last significant snowfall showed me how powerful and capable this beast is.  In the worse situation is when it does its best.   It will cut through thick heavy piles without riding up on it.  There is so much downforce on the bucket and the serrated auger teeth will cut through the packed snow left by tire tracks.  I have a snow cab installed and did not need to put the recommended weight in front.  In scraping mode, it is even more aggressive, it will cut through solid ice.  And if you're not careful, those serrated teeth will make contact with the pavement, but that will only sharpen the teeth even more.

On light fluffy snow 3 inches or less, its like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.  For these light snow situations, I wished I had a light single stage snowblower, particularly the ones with 2 stroke engines, as they seem to have higher auger speeds compared to the 4 stroke engines.  In fact, I was considering the Ariens 722 for its 7 HP engine plus the molded rubber auger that comes with lifetime replacement, labor not included of course, but it just a 10 minute job to do it yourself.

I think the 928 is the perfect balance of power and maneuverability, either in tracked or wheeled model.  For me, the 928TCD (tracked with electric chute and 12V battery for starting) would be the perfect machine.  Unfortunately, this model is not available in the US and would have to be imported from Canada for a hefty sum of money. 

aa335 wrote:
Did you have any pull one way or the other before you put on the side mount shoes?  I'd like to order them from my dealer if it'll help and particularly so when I sell the machine I won't be dumping my problem on someone else.

I'll try tomorrow to turn it the way you described.

dfvellone wrote:

It was skittish but equally on both sides.  I didn't like how darty it was with the rear skids.

Is your surface level.  It will pull to the side that has more friction, ie grass, crowned roads.  You can try to see if both skids are loaded equally.

If it consistently pull to one side only, then I don't think changing skids will be solving the problem. 

Knee_Biter wrote:
I bought the track model because I have a 1000' driveway, and the tracks plus "Honda" was what I thought would be the best bet. By no means is my driveway remotely similar to a paved drive and by this time of year the humps and ridges are good sized even though I'm fanatic about clearing snow before driving and packing it. So I don't expect to be casually strolling behind the machine, but between the carb problems, the pulling and the overall unimpressive features when compared to cheaper blowers  - not to mention the cost of some honda parts  - I'm definitely soured on Honda customer service and hs1132 engineering.  My 5000 watt generator is a great machine but I'll list this for sale next fall and try to find something that even my wife might be able to use.

dfvellone wrote:

Do you have a gravel driveway?  Is the bucket sides digging into the gravel over uneven sections?  IF that's the case, side skids may not help.  You may need to make a custom side skids that is longer and wider to allow the bucket to float over the grave/snow instead of digging in.

aa335 wrote:
My driveway surface definitely isn't level so I don't expect perfection but my old gilson brothers blower made this honda feel like plowing a rocky field with a rabid mule.

I clear my pond for skating and the machine pulls hard right. In fact on the ice I've held lightly to the handles and let the machine go where it wants to see how it turns and it'll pretty much just turn in tight circles.

aa335 wrote:
I do have a fairly rocky driveway - Adirondack sand and mixed size stone. I initially pack a light base with the car then for the first few cleanings I keep the bucket in the high position . Once I have a good hard base I'll occasionally clear in the mid position, some parts in the low.  If I just clear in the high position, by late february the base is just too deep. Otherwise I'd just clear in high and not struggle so much. But the parking area, walkways, woodshed areas are the killer for the turning.

dfvellone wrote:
On the height adjustment pedal, there are three notches on each side.  When you step on the pedal, the notches move back from a pin and allow you to move to the next notch.  I was wondering if one of the two pins are missing or not in its notch when you release the pedal.

aa335 wrote:
That's the first place I looked  last winter because I was hoping that there might be something I could adjust. Everything is together there. This is where I thought there might be a warp since the pulling occurs when I engage the pedal . It's the only point of control affecting the track wheels, right? The front wheels are mounted on the driveshaft and are static as far as their height. The rear wheels rely on the pedal/height adjustment assembly. If somethings bent there it could affect the how even the tracks are resting on the ground  and result in a pull one way or the other. Right?
Everything else seems fine. The mounting of the wheels is fine, the shoes are dead even and when I adjust them unevenly to try to influence the pull nothing changes. The scraper is even too.

dfvellone wrote:

The sprocket wheel (front) and the rollers (rear) are fixed in relation to one another.  When you raise or lower the bucket, the whole chassis rotates around the front sprocket shaft.  The track stays put.  I'm just thinking out loud.  If the pedal does not lock in the chassis on both sides, that might explain your feeling being uneven and rocking.  This in turn could mean that one of the tracks is loaded more heavily than the other.

Here's a parts diagram of the crawler.  It might help if you can take a look at the crawler assembly and the height adjustment plate assembly. 

http://www.wascolawn.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/16/0/26488/4890/default.aspx

Have you tried removing the skids completely or at least raising them out of "operating range."  Just rely on the height adjustments and the front blade.  I  don't think that this will completely eliminate you problem but it may give you a better sense of what is going on.  I recently had my track drive honda apart  when a big storm rolled in.  I did not get a chance to put the skids back on so I blew the driveway with just the front scraper on.  Granted my hs-80 has a small 24 inch bucket but it does not pull from side to side.  It spins on a dime in the snow with one hand when locked into the mid and high position.   When the bucket is in full forward position it's stuck to the ground like rock. 

Your situation sounds a lot like the Ariens that I used before this honda.  I was always wrestling with it to keep it going down the driveway.  Constantly.  And I tried everything because it was   a beautiful brand spanking new ariens.   I think the issue was the relationship between the width of the chasis and the width of the snow bucket.  That's why I started looking for an 8hp blower with a narrow 24" bucket.  Maybe that's part of the problem with the 32. Boy, they sure look nice though.

I feel you pain on the cost of replacement parts. I rely on on-line parts dist., ebay and a local welder to keep mine running.

dfvellone wrote:

A Honda guy from another board posted this:

 check the scraper bar. If it is not even it will catch and pull the machine in that direction especially if the tracks are set at neutral or lower. 

Sounds like your issue. Maybe the scraper bar itself is uneven in terms of the edge being mismanufactured / worn and not even in the relationship between the adjusting slots and the edge. Kind of out of square. I know this is a "reach" but it appears you checked everything else.

Marc

Underdog wrote:
I haven't tried removing the skids - I adjusted them to dead level then started adjusting each  to different heights to see if I could manipulate the pull with their difference in height. I'll try to remove them...I'll try anything at this point.

mml4 wrote:
What i did with the scraper bar was to take it down to the pond and and check it against the ice surface. In the mid position I adjusted it to honda's specs which i think was between 3 and 5/32nds above grade. Then I put the bucket in the low position and pulled the bucket from the front to visually check how even it was scraping the ice. It was nice and even and the pull was still hard right.

dfvellone- I reread this thread from the beginning and saw that this is a 3 year old machine. Was it new when you bought it? Did it always pull to the right? Is the tractor section and the blower section in proper allighnment?

Again I know this is a reach but find the center of the dashboard and mark it . Take a piece of string and stretch it between that center spot on the dash and the center of the auger bearing on the right side. Mark the string with a magic marker and then see if the string is exactly the same length between the dashbord midpoint and the center of the left side auger bearing. If not the machine is not alligned properly. I used to check the allignment of rear motorcycle tires this way after adjusting the chain. Another shot in the dark but something has got to be causing this.

Marc

mml4 wrote:
Reminds me of when I was shopping for a used skidsteer loader.  There was one
I was interested in at one point.  When I went back for a second look one of the wheels
looked a bit odd.  The third time I went back I brought some string and put it up against
the wheels, like you'd do for a motorcyle wheel.  The rear wheel was severely out of
alignment and this is on a machine that has no suspension, the wheels/motors are
bolted directly to the body.  The thing must have fallen off a trailer or something.  Not
a word about it from the seller, who was a Bobcat dealer.

Paul

mml4 wrote:
I bought it new and it has pulled from the start. I never really cleared much in the low position at first because my driveway was really rough so when I rarely did drop it to low I chalked it up to the uneven surface. I improved the driveway by the second year but still not too much, and again only rarely dropped it to low. I noticed it more definitively when I started clearing my pond. Now that my driveway is in decent shape I can clear in low once in while to keep the base from building up.
My dealer isn't too confidence inspiring or I'd just bring it to them although it's out of warranty. I had an issue with icing in the carb and their suggestions were just too indicative of their lack of ability - they just sell.
I finally informed them of the service bulletin honda had posted regarding the icing problem. They'd never checked with Honda, just kept replacing carbs on problematic hs1132's under warranty which didn't help.

dfvellone wrote:
I think everyone has covered all the possible causes without having the snowblower for visual inspection.  I would suggest taking the snowblower to another Honda dealer near you.  I'm surprised that your experience with that particular dealer that sold your Honda.  There are many places that sell Honda power equipment, but only a select few are allowed to sell the bigger two stage snowblowers.  They are usually larger and have a competent people that know and can service the equipment.

aa335 wrote:
Once we get past this bit of deep freeze I'll spend  one more day with all the suggestions and info everyone here has helped me out with and try to get this problem figured out - I don't have a heated space to work in.
If I can't get it solved I'll have to see about where to take it. My dealer is a Power Choice Dealer but I think they've earned that label from sales not service. It's hard to pay labor rates that high when you've got to point out to the mechanic what the solution to a chronic problem is.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. This website has benefited me more in these past few days with more thoughtful advice than I'd expected,  and certainly much more informative insight than I've received  from the dealer who received nearly $3000. from me.

dfvellone wrote:
You definitely don't want to bring into a dealer who has no intention of taking care of your issues but to only give you the run around.

Just came across this thread.  My 1132 is about 3 years old.  When I first got it, same issue you're having.  Pull to the right.  I called my local guy and he said, "Is it always to the right?"  It turns out that there were several units made in which the entire housing was misaligned.  Apparantly they weren't confirming the alignment when the two main pieces of the housing were coupled. (Honda states that this part was subcontracted.)  This is a $1000 part.  The dealer picked up the machine and installed a new housing under warranty.  There is a slight visual difference in the two.  The leading edges of the old housing were wrapped a bit.  The new one is not.  I was at another dealer last year and saw a new 1132 on the floor for sale and it still had the old style housing.  I can't confirm if they've gone back to the older design, (correctly aligned) or this was a leftover.  They weren't all bad.

The key to noticing if this is your problem is that despite the fact you've setup the machine, per the manual, as you rock it forward from the highest position, take notice of which side of the housing contracts the ground first.  If it's the right, by an inch or so, you've got a defective housing.  Now, getting your dealer to honor this is another challenge.

Fortunately, I've not had the surging or backfiring, though I'm not sure if I've got the carb kit.  Anyone know how to tell?

Lastly, my machine still pulls, though now its in both directions.  I've lowered the shoes a bit and that helps.  My neighbors 928 does it less.  I think there is just more torque generated by the wider housing.  I'm interested to try the side mount shoes to see if that reduces it.

bondmaster wrote:

You are correct, the wider bucket housing generates more torque so it will pull when catching high traction patches.   The 928 has less pull, I venture to say that the 724 has almost no pull as the tracks width are the same as the bucket.

I have the side mounted skid shoes and the pull in either direction is about the same as rear mount skid shoes.  However, it is easier to correct the pull as the side shoes do not dig into the grass as much as the side of the bucket.

Also, it is harder to do a u-turn with the side shoes in high traction areas.  Feels like the side edges acts like sharp ice skates, preventing the turn.  If the pavement has some packed snow layer, the side shoes glides over them much better.

Hi 9 Years ago walked into a Honda dealer and said I want the toughest machines to go through the snow drift at the end of my driveway, I have a bad back and i can't take it anymore. He sold me a Honda track. I am not a mechanic but I am mechanically inclined. So, please take what I write as you wish I don't have the answers just what has worked for me. I've usually had at least 8-10 small engine machines in my business. I just retired. I have a Honda HS928. This is my 9th season. The blower kicks butt. It operates flawlessly. However, there are issues and I would think Honda would have by now taken a look at the design of the skid shoes, scraper bar and Auger clearance. I want to mention one thing about surging before I get into the pulling problem . SURGING: Here, in NYS, we have gas with ethanol. Ethanol has caused more problems than what it is worth. And the gasoline is not like it use to be in the "good old days" it goes bad very fast. First, all my gas is treated with stabilizer - winter or summer. I use ........ brand. Second, at the end of the season, the gas line is shut off and the carb is run dry. Clean carb bowl. I fill the tank with gas to the top, I don't care what the companies recommend I fill the tanks. Prior to next season operation. the gas tank is emptied, I throw the gas from the small engine into the truck and then refill the tank with fresh gas. I have eliminated all gasoline and carburetor problems. Before I implemented my storage gas system My Honda blower had a surging problem. To me surging is when the engine carb runs the RPM high - low - high - low, etc. Backfiring from time to time. Remove the carb brought it to my Honda dealer and let him clean it in his special non corrosive solution, when it comes out of the machine it is ready to go. Change the gas line filter. It eliminated the problem. Ditto for my Honda generator and my Yamaha generator. The first few seasons I ran the snow blower the machine tracked pretty straight but it would bump left-right-left-right, etc and you had to really hold on to keep it straight. I think it was the third season I brought it to the Honda dealer. He billed me for an adjustment. I ran the blower, it seemed to get progressivelly worse, little by little over the seasons. In this area some winters we hardly use the blower and sometimes we have 4-6 good snows - not much compared to other areas. I haad Honda adjust it again. The problem - basically is the blower "digs in" left, then right, left, right, etc. Another way to explain it the bucket bumps left-right-left- right and you really have to hold on. You have to hold-on to the handles for some feet. Then it will track pretty straight and then for no apparent reason it starts again. Eventually, I figured out the problem no thanks to Honda. Oh, If you are wondering why I didn't do my own work. When you work 8 days a week running a small business you have to give out some work. Honda adjusted this blower twice without success. Ultimately, this is what I found. My scraper bar had worn out so much the bottom of the bucket had started to wear away! Second, the auger was bitting into the blacktop and wore down the ice cutting blade tips on the auger. I know what you guys are thinking, you concrete head you didn't feel anything? Well hold on now, first keep in mind I was having a problem all along. As the scraper blade was wearing down, the tips of the augers were getting ground down slowly little by little. When I realized what had happened I started to tackle the problem by myself. Here is what I figured out. If you read the Honda owners guide or the Honda's mechanics manual, as I have, they speak of setting the auger height depending on the condition of the snow NOT THE CONDITION OF THE SURFACE. My blacktop is not flat as ice, far from it, it has some waves and bumps in it. So, when the Honda Mechanic sets the auger and scraper to the specs (or you or me) that is for a flat surface. It does not work on my bumpy drive. My scraper bar would catch on a high ridge and crabs, it starts this process of digging in left right until the driveway flattens out. The other thing is I think the last Honda mechanic really blew it he was way off because as mentioned above everything was grinding down. Solution: The problem for me was the scraper bar digs into the black top high stops, the bucket wants to pivot around the skid shoes. Only speaking for my situation. I threw the specs out. I give the auger a good half inch clearance when I set up the machine. I set the scraper bar with the "foot pedal" all the way down full weight on front and give the scraper bar 1/8 inch clearance. (I operate most of the time with the foot pedal in the middle position, the scraper bar leaves a good half inch of snow but the scraper bar only infrequently digs in. The problem that I experienced has improved, it has not eliminated it. It worked for me. I think part of the problem maybe the combination of the tracks and the weight on two skid points. Maybe some of you guys have a different view point. I wonder what would happen if the skids were mounted out-bound on the bucket? I'm sure there is a reason why the engineers mounted them in front of the tracks. Out bound on the bucket; wouldn't the skids give more resistance to pivoting around the skids in the position they are now? The downside is I have to leave more snow on the driveway than with previous less expensive machines. If I kick the pedal down, getting the weight down on the scraper bar, then I get the problem back again but, I leave less snow. Maybe you can use the information here to solve your own problem. Oh, the Honda HS928 does not have bucket skid shoes just the HD skid shoes that are attached to the back of the bucket. The Honda blower is a hell of machine. I think Honda ought to take a look at the design of the skids, the scraper bar and the auger clearance. If you bring the machine to Honda they have no clue. Maybe I need to find another Honda dealer. When I service the blower at the end of the season I recheck and set up everything as mentioned above. And don't forget to tighten the shear machine screws. Put a split ring washer under them too. Good luck guys and stay warm.

The pulling to one side or the other is due to a very smallish skid shoe footprint and a huge bucket down force (30+ lbs).  There's only 3 square inches of skid shoe per side.  This combination is what makes a Honda snowblower so tenacious in digging into EOD piles and resisting lifting up on the bucket.  However, this combination is also a source of frustration as it tends to grab pavement irregulatories.  I think this is the reason why US models have the skid shoes behind the bucket just in front the tracks.    At this location, there is less torque generated that will affect the direction of the snowblower.

You can alleviate the effect of "bump steer" by lowering the skid shoes and let the auger and scraper ride higher above the pavement, leaving 1/2 inch of snow behind.  This also allows you to skid steer the tracks better since its not on super high traction surface.  The higher the bucket, the more weight is shifted on the tracks.  Another solution is to use both side and rear skid shoes, now you have more contact surface with less weight on each shoe.

In this regard, I think the Yamaha snowblower have put skid shoes behind the bucket and towards to the sides as well.  I have thought about doing the same modification on my HS1132 and see how it works.

I agree that Honda needs to do something about this design as this is a source of frustration on the operator.  I can deal with locked axles, but constant steering correction can be tiresome after a while.