Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Before I ask my question, are they on-topic for this forum?

If they are, I'll come back and edit it into this post. If not, can anyone recommend another place?


Edit, the next day: Thanks, I'll post my Q below!

I don't run things here but see no reason not to post generator questions.

Marc

I have researched gens a couple of time.  One of the most important factors besides the obvious like size etc is which fuel will run the unit.  If it is for a true emergency application and you have it hard lined to a propane source, they aren't going to send you a propane truck to refill it if it is low in the middle of an emergency.  Those can be great for the gens that are suppose to get you through frequency outtages in your area, but for a hurrican application, they don't seem to be the first choice.  Regular gasoline is another option, but many people that use them or plan to use them for true emergency applications much prefer deisel.  I remember one guy talking about a hurricane application and "accquiring" fuel from a school bus lot. 

The point that I am trying to make is that make sure you consider fuel type in your decision making process.  Now having said that, when the floods hit last year and my basement in my recreational property was filling up fast I brought over a larger trash pump to pump it out.  That was doing a fantastic job until the power went out.  When it did and the water line put out the pilot on the hot water heater and was approaching the electrical part of my heater, I bough the last 7000 watt gen that they had at Walmart to save the house.  I wish I would have been able to buy a deisel unit that was portable and larger, but this little guy gets me by and the small investment saved me a lot of money.

Tell us more about your application and you will get more specific responses.

Rick

I have a standby GENERAC 12kw with automatic transfer on natural gas.  Best investment in any kind of storm.  As long as gas is supplied to the house I have power.Yes I know its not portable but have no other use for a generator. The only expense to me was the purchase.  The install I did all on my own to code.

OK, ever since I built this house I've been planning an a 8-12KW propane, air cooled unit. I had a manual TS installed when the main panel was installed, so it's ready to wire.  I just don't have the cash to lay out for a permanent mount unit and going 2 1/2 days without power in the winter is NOT an experience I wish to repeat. For less than 1/3 rd the total cost of that, I am going to go with a portable gasoline unit and know that I can't run everything. I can deal with that.

I'm aware of the disadvantages of gasoline generators but it's the most cost effective.  I have an 80G propane tank that feeds my grill and kitchen range but I'm not sure if the regulator on that is the right pressure and propane units aren't cheap.  Between the mowers and snowblower, I have a couple 2 gallon gas cans in the garage, so I always have from 1-4 G available. I can easily siphon gas from one of the vehicles if I need more. In fact, I often siphon gas to fill my cans because it's easier than driving to town to go to a gas station. I'll install a drain on the fuel line if it's not there already so I can empty the tank and run it dry between emergencies and maintenance. If the unit I get will let me, I'll weld up a frame and mount it high enough off the floor that I can change oil without moving it.

I need 240V for my well pump. I'm figuring at a bare minimum I need 3KW, but I'd prefer to go above that, 6 would be nice. I plan on spending <$1000 on the unit and another 100-200 on receptacles, wire, and plugs. I have run my house on a 5KW in the winter.

My questions:
Tecumseh powered is out, not taking a chance on parts in the future. That leaves B&S and Honda for engines. With a Honda I believe the GX series is the one I want, I'm not sure which Briggs is preferred (OHV Intek?) Deere has Subaru engines on some models, how are they?

Units are out there with both Briggs and Honda engines, but I don't know about the generator itself. Are there any particular manufacturers I should look for, or any to avoid?

I'd like to place and leave it in my attached garage for weather protection, and ease of use and wiring. Anyone know a source for a through-the-wall exhaust thimble and flex exhaust piping? I may need a muffler too. The garage is unheated and has a lot of venting, I'd still rather dump the exhaust outside.

Some units I'll be looking at more deeply:
Deere AC-G4000, 5000
Sears Craftsman (B&S) Model 030251
B&S Model 030430

Sears carries "All Power America" units. Who makes those?

I have a 5.5 kW gasoline generator. It’s an inexpensive Genterac model, but I’ve only needed it for an extended outage once in the last 7 years. I think I paid less than $500 for it. I have it set up to distribute power through the house wiring, but I did it on the cheap. It comes down to a question of how much money do you want tided up in a generator that you may only use a few days every 5 years.

My Genterac is hard to start in the cold, so I have to keep starting fluid on-hand. I also use synthetic oil in it so it’s easier to pull through in the cold. I keep 5 gallons of alcohol-free stabilized gas in it’s tank, but have the shutoff valve closed.

My generator burns 0.66 gallons per hour at half load (2,750 watts), which is nearly 16 gallons per day. I typically keep 35 gallons on hand, so I can run for about two days. If we get a big ice storm a person might have to drive a long ways to find a gas station that has both power and gas as many more people have generators than have 30 to 40 gallons on hand. Actually, it may be against code to keep that much gas in your garage depending on where you live. That’s why people spend the big bucks for NG or propane systems.

My generator is loud and the muffler gets hot enough to melt aluminum, so it’s no easy thing to find some means of extending the exhaust. You need something that can take the heat and is flexible enough to allow for the vibration. Flexible automotive exhaust hoses won’t take that much heat. I wouldn’t recommend running a generator in an attached garage as any leak in the exhaust could be dangerous. I made a 240v cable long enough so that I can set the generator on the driveway and run the cable under the closed garage door to a plug just inside the garage. I also run a steel cable to the generator and padlock it so it doesn’t just disappear.

One thing to remember is that if there’s an extended power outage anyone living nearby is either going to show up with an extension cord or might even think you should share your portable generator with them. You can make friends and you can make enemies during an extended power outage particularly in the winter.

Watch the exhaust on the portable units.  People DIE every year because they run them in an attached garage and think that they will be OK in the house.  Make sure it is ventilated properly. 

Good thing about Diesel is that it is more stable than gas and less volitale.  Less danger for you and your family.  Not terribly expensive:  http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_8792_8792

OK, research (mostly) completed, it seems I can't do what I want without it costing me an additional $1000 or more.

So I'll be getting a portable with wheels. Gasoline, because I don't want to try and store multiple 55 drums of diesel and replace it every year, nor do I want to be bothered with trying to hook up a portable to my big propane tank. I can always retrofit for propane if I change my mind.  I already have a manual transfer switch installed, did that when I built the house so I just need to run some #10 from there to a weatherproof Twist-Lok receptacle.

I'll have to leave it outside while in use, only problem with that is weather. Too much trouble to try to fit an exhaust pipe thru-wall, plus it would void the warranty.

BTW, the "All Power America" brand is all-chinese. Forget that. I'm down to two different B&S units, almost identical, the Craftsman 5600W  0302501 or the B&S 030333.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07132561000P
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engine_power/details.aspx?pid=150

The Craftsman is slightly more powerful (surge rating) and cheaper but not as well built, and the B&S is weatherproofed. But it's a short drive to Sears. I'd have to order the B&S and get it delivered. I was unable to come up with spec sheets for the generator portion, I suspect the B&S is a heavier-duty one. But I did learn that it will cost me $1500 more to get one of the really good ones, no portable units seem to have them.

Also, Hondas are way overpriced. I'd step up to a Kohler stationary before I'd pay that much for a portable. I have on the job experience with both Kohler and Cat and can't complain about either. I run datacenters on them, which is probably why it is so difficult for me to step down to one I can afford with my own money.

Bill_H wrote:

Bill I'm not sure what Subaru engine Deere uses on their generators but if it similar to the one I have on my Ariens commercial mower it will be a great engine.  Mine is a Robin Subaru chain driven OHC/OHV  engine.  Starts great, smooth power, and the quietest gasoline engine I ever used. 

I can't speak to your other questions.  I only have a small 1850 watt portable generator. 

Bill H. I have an overpriced honda portable generator on wheels, it is an 8 hp. 3000 watt. model. I have had to use it maybe 4 times in the time I've had it and it sure has saved me when I needed it. I know it was expensive but I thought I would have it to pass on to my kids someday, you never wear a good one out.

Check on line prices and even Ebay if you have access to local service.  If you can't get local service, I would pass on those units.  http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=new+honda+generator&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=honda+generator&_osacat=0

Kubota make some of the best generators available.  Their diesels are pricey but phenomenally long lived.   I have one at my camp that's 26 years old with over 7500 hours on it.  Kubota also make gasoline units.  You should at least check them out. 

I was at a Costco store a weeek or two ago. They carried three portables and one of them was a HONDA. Don't remember the price nor the capacity.I went online but they don't show it. I guess it was only available in store.

Be very careful when buying expensive pieces of equipment from Costco!

They actually have special lines of products made just for them. Sometimes, you will see equiment or electronics with "obscure" brand names, or big brand names like Honda, in this case, but with lesser quality.

I'm in the market for a 2K-2.5K portable generator.

I had considered a Robin Subaru R1700i but I need 2K minimum.

http://www.robinamerica.com/pfeatures.aspx?pid=74

It's now a toss up between the Honda EU2000i or the Yamaha EF2400iS

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/products/modelhome/475/0/home.aspx

I like the higher output of the Yamaha but it's about 25 lbs more than the Honda. It appears sound-wise they are the same. It appears the Honda has a longer potential runtime as well. I am leaning toward the Honda but the Yamaha is appealing as well.

Anyone have any + or - experiences with the above listed Honda or Yamaha product?

Thanks!

For what it's worth: We have a 5K Generac (6250 peak), and it did the job.  However, perhaps because we upgraded our well pump to 1/2 HP, we get very visible brownouts whenever the pump starts.  We use it to power the pump, the heating system (forced hot water by oil), refrigerator, microwave, smoke detectors, and one set of outlets (lights and computers).  It's not the entire house, but it's enough to keep us comfortable.  Because of the brownouts, we're looking at upgrading the generator.   Given that the generator ought to last at least ten years, I'd consider spending an extra couple of hundred to get one with more than 5KW. 

For what it's worth:  Ace Hardware carries B&S generators, though you may need to order it online and get it shipped to a nearby store.  The 6200w model, with battery start, runs $1K.

snowmachine wrote:
Check out the reviews from Camping Life.

http://www.campinglife.com/output.cfm?ID=1112113

Good info, GaryBy, Thanks!

Also FWIW, I'd check the amp draw & voltage drop when that well pump starts, as too low a voltage could damage something in the house (some motors will overheat), and too much of a draw could hurt the genny - but if you're not tripping a breaker it may not be too much current. If they're on different breakers on the genny you could draw too much without tripping any breaker. Don't forget that as voltage drops, some electrics will draw more current to obtain/maintain constant power, which only makes it worse.

I had borrowed a 5K Coleman once during a power failure here and it ran my well and furnace OK, but I never checked them at the same time the refrigerator was running. That's why I'm looking for something just a bit bigger, those 3 are the necessities, anything else is a luxury. When I first powered the house up with it - after 28 hours with no power - I shut down the breaker for the furnace and well. Once the refrigerator was up and running and the sump pump finished, I powered on the well, waited till the well pump shut down and finally put on the furnace. Furnace last because I knew there would be an oil burner and 3 circ pumps running at once - the other 2 were used later.

Paul7 wrote:
Thanks! Actually this article had started out my research. Just curious if anyone had any of these models here.

I think I am going to go with the Honda. I need to do some startup wattage testing on my refrigerator and freezer to ensure it will be able to power them at least individually. I noticed I can get it with a LP gas conversion as well.

I picked up one of these inexpensive wattage meters.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001

Bill_H wrote:
My recollection is that the boiler (oil burner + 2 circulating pumps) didn't seem to cause as much as a dip as the microwave, and certainly not the refrigerator.  Since we weren't running the generator 24 hours, the refrigerator really wanted to be running whenever it had power.  After a couple of days of just adapting to life without external power, I wound up toggling things at the transfer panel to reduce the chance of problems.  Fortunately, our well pump usage is fairly predictable.

Now if only we had had the deep freeze right after the ice storm.  Then I could have emptied the freezer and stored it all outside.