Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have here a piston connecting rod that has just a little too much play in the bearing/bushing that connects it to the shaft.  Is there a bearing/bushing that can be replaced or does the whole connecting rod/shaft assembly need to be replaced? This is off of a Honda 5hp horizontal shaft 4 stroke engine that belongs in a honda single stage snowblower (HS520). 

borat wrote:

I called and spoke with a salesperson at Small Engine Warehouse  ( 800-321-6725) about this  motor ($190 w/ship) and they told me that it was not a suitable replacement for a honda snowblower GC160 engine.
They explained to me why not but to be honest the answer was too complicated for me to really understand.  They said to check back another time because they get engines in all the time.  .  Is there a less expensive online parts dealer?  I understand that Honda keeps a tight lid on parts distribution.  I did find a place (Tulsa Engine Warehouse) that had aftermarket parts for less.

	PISTON RING SET	Piston Rings		$9.00	$9.00
	PISTON ASSEMBLY	Piston		$21.00	$21.00
	Standard Connecting Rod	Connecting Rod		$10.50	$10.50
Estimated Shipping (Best Way)					$8.95
				Total	$49.45

Your connecting rod doesn't seem to be worn much at all which is odd given the
condition of the bearing surfaces on the crankshaft.  I suppose the marks there
are deposited aluminum but there doesn't seem to be much gone from the rod.

What does the inside of the cylinder look like ?  The piston is pretty scuffed up so
it must be pretty loose.  I'm not sure but I doubt your cylinder has much of a sleeve
(probably just some sort of chrome coating ?) so any wear to the cylinder wall could
be costly.

Apart from the 100$ or so for parts, a minimum I'd say, you should also figure
in your time and experience.  Do you have a torque wrench, for instance ?  Have
you reassembled small engines before ?  Not trying to discourage you but an
engine in a basket can be a bunch of trouble.

How much would a proper engine from a Honda dealer cost ?

Paul

pvrp wrote:

I have a torque wrench.  I have never reassembled a small engine before and I'm not an engineer.  I have taken apart dishwashers, washing machines, and small electronics.  I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this project, so don't feel that your words are taken as "trying to discourage."   When I was 15 my dad took a small engine repair class and completely disassembled a tecumseh L head engine off of our ariens snowblower. The next few winters I had to shovel the driveway by hand. 
Here's a photo of the inside of the cylinder. One side is not as smooth as the other. This is the not-as-smooth side:

From the looks of the cylinder, the engine was either run low on oil or run in dusty conditions.   Being that it's on a snow thrower, I'd venture to say it's the former.   I personally wouldn't use that cylinder and being a Honda "GC" series, it doesn't have an iron liner.  Which means that it's pretty much shot.  You can check to see if it can be re-bored but doubt if it can be.  If the engine had been run low on oil, just about all of the other friction surfaces are likely compromised.  Don't want to burst your bubble but I'd say it's a lost cause.  If you decide to get a new engine, the Honda "GX" series are the industrial application models.  They have a cast iron liner and are supposed to be more robust overall. 

borat wrote:

This is good to know. No reason to waste my time.  I appreciate the input. I bid on new replacement engine that sold on ebay today, but lost it  at $140 delivered.  As far as replacement engines go, if I find a Honda GC 160 with a shaft that is the same length and keyed and threaded the same way will it fit?  Are there other parameters to look for?  

 I had thought about parting it out and trying to sell the gas tank, gas cap, flywheel, spark plug, recoil starter, Magneto / Ignition Coil, drain plug, timing belt, plastic cam, and exhaust.  I thought that the sale of these parts might  subsidize the replacement engine. 

 I may try to reassemble this one just for the experience.  If I reassemble this and it starts what will happen?  Will it explode or do anything dangerous? Putting it back together might be interesting.  Maybe not. 

So looking back on the demise of the engine, why would it have run low on oil.  New engines shouldn't ever really run out of oil should they? You are right, it would not have been run in dusty conditions. I'm at a loss to explain what might have happened. Why would the plastic cam wheel and timing belt have broken? (those are brand spankin new)

How bad are the scratches on the bore and crank journal?  As someone on this list once wrote, “can your run your fingernail across the journal and not catch it on bumps and ruts?   If there are no ruts you might get lucky and be able to sand off minor high spots and remain within spec.  You’d have to be very lucky. 

 

   The same for the bore.  Are they scratches or surface marks?   They look bad but again if you were lucky and no ruts then you could re-hone and see how close you are to tolerance limits.  How do you check?  HF sells a bore gauge set for $7. They have a digital vernier for $10 on sale.  The gauge compares well to a much more expensive Starett.

 

   The idea being it might be worth the $50 to get an education.  Rebuild the motor and see how it comes out.  You might get lucky on the first shot.  People on the list helped me out and my first motor actually ran well.  If it runs and sucks as a motor you’ll have made a big accomplishment.  It would be better to hack on this motor as a learning experience then learn on a much more valuable engine. 

 

   Harbor Freight has some decent engines.  I bought three last week at $109 each.  They come with a 90 day warrantee.  For 11 bucks they add 12 months so that will cover these motors over two snow seasons.  The warrantee is also transferable.  The HF motors are made in China by Lifan.  Lifan is one of China’s better makers of small engines.  They are a giant company making all sorts of motorized things.  I know their motorcycles very well and they are excellent.

 

   The HF engine is 6.5hp, OHV, cast iron bore, and low oil shutoff protection, arm throttle control but has holes for a cable, fuel shutoff and choke at the carb.  They are made in partnership with Honda so a legal clone and the parts interchangeable with Honda.  I have mounted a few on great older Ariens bodies. 

 

   One of these engines might be an option.  Lifan is a quality maker but who knows the actually quality of the model HF is selling. ?? We’ll see.  I spent 4 years in China and pretty familiar with their small motors so getting them was not a problem for me.

 

   If you did replace yours I’d still go with the rebuild if the scoring was not prohibitive.  Even just putting it all back together would be worthwhile.  It’s not as complicated as it seems once you wade in.

David

trouts2 wrote:

A finger nail does not snag on any of the scratches. The scatches on the piston and cylinder  are more like surface wear marks. The crank shaft is smooth as glass but darker in color.   My camera does not allow me to get much depth of field with the flash on. That's why the photos are so blurry on the cylinder.
I realize that I'm the only one that can really see/touch the damage. So I'm really the only one in a position to do a fair job of assessing the damage. Infortunately I have no knowledge of what I'm looking at.

I have a 15% coupon to harbor freight and they have a store near me.  I'm not sure how difficult it would be to size another engine to fit (even a honda clone).  I could take the old engine with me to the store and set them side by side.  This being a single stage blower everthing needs to fit inside a plastic housing.  That might also mean the end to the electric start and who knows what else.

As for putting it together.  I found an exploded diagram of the engine so i might be able to get it back together.  The shop manual would probably be a neccessity. Would I at the very least want to replace the old connecting rod ($20 delivered)?  I would need to find some way to clean everything really well. Not sure how I would do that.  There are small piece of grit everywhere from it sitting under the tree. (the owner was leaving it out for the rubbish).

 I would have more confidence/faith in fixing the engine if I had a better idea of why it failed.  Give the benifit of the doubt to the person that set it up before it left the showroom. It was full of oil.  In 3 years on a 14 foot driveway (I saw the driveway and the owner was as honest/respectable/conscientios as they come).  Say 16 storms a year, 30 minutes/storm, 3 years = 24 hours (total).  I cannot figure out what went wrong or why the plastic cam wheel would have broken. 

I think I'll sleep on it.

I would put it back together and see how it ran,  I think someone took it too a shop.   They gave him a high est. and he took i back home apart...there is not much carbon on the piston,  The pictures I  see refer to grit in the engine.  I bet there was not much wrong with this motor as far as running... Shops sometimes will not put something back together after an estimate is preformed without work...   Out of spite they take it apart and HOPE the guy leaves it at the shop for parts in leu of fee...

I must have rebuilt 200 engines over  the years,  I see nothing that would keep a good honda from running, It looks like someone never changed the oil.... It probly had a stuck valve and/  or a gunked up carb...

Put it back together with the parts that are there,  run it on the bench to see if it is usable....  If it runs ok,   then think about how much money to throw into it...

I live and work in the desert... You give a Honda to a illegal  and let and he will do this to the motor in a matter of months,   but it will still run fine for years at 4-6 hours a day...

Friiy

I agree 100%. This isnt an aircraft engine that is used in a critical situation. I dont see any major issues and it will be a great learning experience.  Try your public library for a book on small engine repair a similar Honda engine may be discussed.  Make it a fun project and take your time.  Just make a point of getting as much of the grit out of it as possible especially around the rings and grooves.  I have used Simple Green as a soaking solution on my BMW pistons (81 bike with 152,000 miles and runs great!)
Packo

If Underdog wants to do if for the experience, I agree, go ahead a put it together.  However, I wouldn't put a dime into it.  Doing a fingernail drag around the scored cylinder doesn't let you know if it's out of round.  From the wear pattern on the cylinder and piston, you can pretty much bet that it is.  I'm certain that the engine will run but it will burn oil, be noisy (for a Honda), and will also be low on power.   I'd put it back together nonetheless just to see how long it would last in that condition.  I repeat that I just wouldn't put money into it. 

When I buy Honda products, I make sure I get the "GX"  engine.  It's a bit more expensive but it will outlast a GC many times over if properly maintained.  These B&S snow engines are not much different than the Honda GC series engines.  No iron cylinder sleeve.  I wasn't too concerned with that aspect because the B&S engine I have is on a snow thrower.  Cool operating temps and clean environment will help to extend it's life.  If it does blow, I'd certainly make sure I replace it with an IC series or better yet, a suitable B&S Vanguard which is made in Japan.  

So, go ahead.  Put it together and keep let us know how it runs. 

Being an over head cam engine, you'll have to make sure you have the timing gears properly aligned.   There should be indicators on both gears and the manual should also tell you what position they should be in.