Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Since engines can outlast the snowblower does it really matter if the snowblower has a tecumseh engine since they r stopping production soon?Or just wait till Ariens starts outfitting their snowblowers with Briggs and Stratton engines?

If it's an exceptionally good deal, I'd say it's worth it.  Tecumseh parts will be in supply for a long time.  Therefore, there should be no concern if the engine needs repair.  If you're paying standard rate for the machine, I'd pass and wait for something with an ohv engine.  Why buy  an obsolete/discontinued  model for the price of an up to date machine?

I sure hope Tecumseh parts will be available for a long time.  I've been reading posts that say don't worry about it, and then others that say we're all in trouble.  I find myself thinking that some company would be smart to provide the Tecumseh parts, maybe even take over the plant where the engines have been produced.  Think of all the literally millions of Tecumseh engines out there on lawn mowers, snow blowers, and other outdoor power equipment.  Seems like a no-brainer that parts will be available somehow.  I just wish we could get some REAL bonafide documented news about this issue.  All we get so far is that the Tecumseh plant is shutting down December 15, 2008, and then almost no useful information; rather, just speculation.

How about some dealers and repair shop guys begin posting on a regular update-type basis about what they have learned from Tecumseh or other engine manufacturers, or even from equipment manufacturers?  Surely there is information somewhere "out there". 

I was looking around for either a used or new blower, but have put that on hold because I'm concerned about the parts availability issue.

Just my two cents here.

As stated, there literally millions of Tecumseh engines out there world wide.  To discontinue parts supply would probably lead to some serious litigation against Tecumseh and/or who ever is liqidating the business.  Not sure about small engines but auto manufacturers are required to provide parts for many years after discontinuing a particular model of vehicle.  I know this isn't the information you are looking for.  However, if a super good deal is available for a machine with a Tecumseh engine, you could alway buy a back up engine with the savings.  Another thing to think of is that if you did blow the Tecumseh engine, a Briggs & Stratten will drop right in (with spacers and possibly different a bolt hole pattern).  Considering the old Tecumseh L head engine's reputation for reliability, if properly maintained, I wouldn't be too concerned.  If the deal is real sweet, go for it.  

   Not to challange the opening post but what I've seen is for makers like MTD the engines generally outlast the bodies.  For Toro and Ariens the engines generally give out before the bodies.  For auger gearboxes there's no question Toro and Ariens will outlast MTD auger gearcases.  I've seen many split open MTD cases and not one for Ariens or Toro yet.  For ok cases but stripped gears MTD is still the leader by quite a bit, Toro next then Ariens.  The problem for MTD I think is the thickness of the gears which is so slim the brass helical gear splits and breaks into chunks which then breaks the case.  For Toro I've only seen junk gearbox gears worn till unusablity, same for Ariens but only a couple.    

   There are lots of old Ariens late 60's and early 70's machines around with solid tight tractor sections that will function like new machines given a decent motor with full compression.  For MTD they are usually battle worn.  Not to be to negative about MTD they have a place in the pricing order of things.   I've got a row of motors in the cellar.  The ones for rebuild are mostly from Ariens bodies with the bodies getting the reuild.  For complete motors they are from slightly newer MTD's who'd bodies are junk and the motors destined for refit to an Ariens. 

trouts2

Your observations are enlightening.  Have you actually closely inspected the auger gear housings to see if they have become thinner over the years?  I have also noted that almost all of the brands are switching from heavy duty cast iron gear cases to aluminum.  I noticed that this year, Simplicity is also offering a model with an aluminum gear case.  Not a good sign, in my view.  I don't disagree with the use of aluminum in the construction of gear cases provided the material is of sufficient alloy composition and thickness to resist deflection from gear loading.  I'm not certain but I would suspect that all gear cases are not the same.  There are probably different grades of  gear cases and less expensive machines cost less for a reason.  As we see the modern machines evolving toward planned obsolescence and disposability, one would be wise to hold on to the old tanks, keep them well lubricated, adjusted, fasteners good and tight and re-engine as required.    

The Toro and MTD gearcases seem to be the same thickness over the years.  Some of the earlier MTD gearcases were fairly pathetic as least what they mounted on Snowflites.  The gearcases were fairly thin, essentially a box split in two horizontally not vertically, and not bolted together well.  The helical gear teeth were on the side instead of the top.

 

   Toro gearcase size have gotten a bit bigger in total length and width.  They have flange bearings like most not roller bearings as in high end Ariens machines. 

 

    Physical size of the gears is fuzzy.  Just because there is a bigger helical gear does not mean better.  The quality of the gear material would make a difference.  Just what each manufacturer puts in their gears is a puzzle but given the ration of dead gearcases it would be fairly safe to say Toro, Ariens, Snapper and Simplicity will outlast MTD or AYP made machines.  Ariens low end line seems to be at least on par or better than MTD or AYP judging from dead body count.

 

    Below are some pictures of gears and gearboxes from a late 80 to early or mid 90’s Toro 521 and MTD 826 is from mid 90’s machine.  The Toro gearboxes have since gotten a bit larger, the impeller drive arm a bit smaller and I’m not positive about the thickness of the auger blade support shaft but these days they are still hefty. 

   The MTD friction disk rubbers are thin compared to Toro and Ariens and the rubber does not seem to be as good quality.  The MTD rubber is thin width wise and thickness compared to Ariens, Toro, Simplicity and Snapper.

   I have opened a Simplicity gearbox and the helical gear was substantial.  It’s teeth were large and did not run the full length of the gear.  There was extra body to the gear to the side of the teeth probably for added rigidity.  The Simplicity gear is quite nice.

    The vast majority of engines are Tecumseh’s and great engines.  They are not all the same I’m finding.  In comparing a few same age 8hp’s I’ve found lighter crankshafts in some AYP made Craftsmans compared to the better maker machine engines.  So just having a Tecumseh mounted on an MTD versus a Toro or Ariens does not mean they compare in quality.  But even with a lighter duty engine a Tecumseh on an AYP or MTD will probably outlast the body.

Toro and MTD

Toro and MTD

Simplicity gear.  It's quite bit bigger than an MTD gear and minimally matches the size of the Toro.  The curved or indented section at the top of the gear does not indicate wear.  It's the shape of the gear.  The wear indicator is the flat on the top of the tooth.  They wear from one side through to other.  When the flat on the top of the tooth is gone i.e. has a sharp edge then the gear is too worn to use. 

Excellent analysis Trouts2.  

I've never had the need to crack open the auger gear cases but you certainly can see how the more robust gears differ from the lesser makes.  Some of those gears look so small, you wouldn't think they could run a can opener.   It's always good to have pics to assist explaining such differences.  I know it takes more time and effort to put the pics in but it's appreciated.  Thanks for your commitment to the forum.