Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

This generator has maybe 100 hours on it and I use it maybe 15-20 hours a year and run it for 30 minutes a month when it is not being used. I tried to start it for a 30 minute run and it started and ran for 20-30 seconds and stopped. While it ran, there was black smoke coming out the exhaust like it was being choked and it died like it was being flooded. I took the spark plugs out and they were wet. I ran the starter with the spark plugs out and droplets of gas
came out the spark plug holes. It obviously is way too rich, right? So, what could be the problem? Choke sticking closed? Some sort of carburator adjustment? I recently tuned it up and it has a brand new air filter. I tried it with the air filter off and it did the same thing.

I would appreciate any help/ideas.

Thanks,

Don

Likely problem is that your float needle is stuck in the open position. 

Pull the float bowl off and clean the float needle and seat.  Make sure you watch how the parts come apart/out.  On some carbs, the needle movement is assisted with a very tiny, simple wire follower.  And I mean tiny.  It's function is to follow the float lever at one end with the other end in a small notch in the float needle.  Most float needles rely on gravity/fuel flow to drop the needle away from the seat.   Those with the small wire follower are pulled down by the follower attached to the float lever.  Also check to see if the float needle has a neoprene tip that fits into the fuel inlet seat.  sometimes the tip might be deformed, damaged or have a small particle stuck to it preventing proper closure.  Bottom line, keep a close eye on how things come apart.  Clean the float needle and things should be back to normal. 

Okay, thanks.  I will work on that tomorrow when I get home from work.  Should I try to find and exploded diagram of the carb, or just go slow and careful?  Also, is there anything I can do keep this from happening in the future?  I am careful to keep the fuel clean, but maybe some fuel stabilizer or something?

 Thanks again

I put a couple ounces of SeaFoam into the fuel before storage.  It's an engine cleaner and a fuel stabilizer.  It has worked well for me. 

Another thing to watch for, is to ensure your choke is disengaging properly.  So check your choke linkage/mechanism too.

Check your oil to see if it smells like gasoline.  If it does, change it. 

I took the carb off today and checked the float. Everything seemed normal-clean bowl, float pin was clean and not deformed at all. I didn't check the height of the float-not sure how to do that- but it appeared ok to me just looking. It dropped down a little when turned right side up and would be pushed up a bit when it floated on the fuel. I put it back together and started it up. It ran longer than before, but rich with lots of black/gray smoke and eventually stopped. I checked the choke and it functioned like it should-rotated to choke when the start button was pushed and held and then off when released. I noticed that there was droplets and a mist of gasoline coming out of the air inlet port from the air filter to the carb that I had not put back together. There was even gas droplets running out of the air intake inlet. When I took the spark plugs out, they were wet and when I turned the engine over a mist of gasoline came out of the holes also. So, obviously too much gas still. The choke appears to work appropriately and the throttle linkage also seemed to work fine. Ideas? Can fuel pump pressure be too high for some reason and push too much fuel through the carb? Where could all this gas be coming from.
Thanks again for the help,
Don

How does it run with the air filter off?  Have you tried that?  Most generators that I've seen use gravity flow.  No fuel pump.  Something doesn't seem right in the carb.  It sounds like the main jet is pulling too much fuel which is usually caused by the fuel level being too high in the float chamber.  Did you check the main jet to make sure it's tight in it's seat?   I'd disassemble the carb entirely, clean everything thoroughly and put it back on.  Not much else that I can think of.

It runs the same with the air filter off. It does have a fuel pump-the manual I have says to check it with 12 volts to see if it clicks, but nothing about actual fuel pressure. I didn't check the main jet, but I can do that when I take it apart again. Everything looked fine with the float, but I have located the spec for the float level height, so I will check that when I take the carb apart, clean everything and reassemble it. One other thing-it has a fuel cut solenoid valve. Here is what I can find about it:

FUEL CUT SOLENOID
When the engine is turned off, it will make several complete revolutions before coming to a complete stop. Each intake valve opening will continue to allow fuel to enter the combustion chamber, but without spark occurring. If there is a hot piece of carbon in the combustion chamber, or in the muffler, engine run-on or after burning could occur. The fuel cut stops the flow of fuel to the carburetor main jet.
The fuel cut solenoid is located on the bottom of the carburetor. Electrical power from the generator activates the fuel cut solenoid when the engine switch is turned to the OFF position. The beauty of this system is that a battery is not required to power the system.
Once the generator comes to a complete stop, the solenoid will deenergize and a spring inside the solenoid will pull the needle away from the main jet.

That sounds like something that would keep fuel from the jet rather than too much fuel as it states. To test it, the book says to check continuity between the two leads and it should read 7.5 ohms. I checked it and it reads 6.9. It doesn't have a range, so I am not sure what to make of that, except that it is used to stop fuel to the jet. The generator does not run after turning it off, however.

It also has an adjustment for the pilot screw. I will set it to the standard setting, although the manual says to adjust it after the engine has warmed up to normal operating temperature.
Not sure what the pilot screw does....does that regulate fuel to the jet? I will give it a go tomorrow and set everything I can find to the specs in the manual and see what happens.

I'm not familiar with the carb you are working on.  However, the pilot jet function is to control  low speed operation (approx. the first 1/4 or so of engine speed), thereafter acceleration is passed on to the needle jet on (certain types of carbs) and wide open throttle is governed by the main jet.  If your pilot jet is way out of adjustment, it could possibly be providing more fuel than required at lower rpm.  Once the engine is running a max. rpm, it shouldn't have much of an effect on engine operation.  I'd be interested to know what's causing your problem.   Good luck.

I am going to take the carb off, soak it in carb cleaner and put it back together. The only thing I can guess is that it is a clogged air circuit in the carb or a
bad carb itself. Can't think of anything else. Nothing else would cause too much fuel, would it? I'll let you know what happens.

Just soaking the carb will not guarantee that you get all of the debris out.  I know that many will disagree but I use a very fine wire to get into small passage ways to dislodge dirt then I flush with WD-40 and blow with compressed air.  I also pull all jets and removable components to give them a thorough cleaning.   Not sure why there is such disagreement with using a small wire.   Might be due to ham fisted do-it-yourselfers breaking off pieces of wire in the carb??  Don't know.  I do know that if done carefully, using the wire will get the job done. 

I can't think of anything else that could cause fuel flooding other than the carb being out of adjustment or stuck open float needle.   Go over everything on the fuel system to ensure all hoses are good, fuel tank clean etc.  Won't do anything to solve your existing problem but will ensure the rest of the system is good. 

I cleaned the carb and all the parts. I used a small wire and compressed air in all the air passages. Then I blew threw each one with a plastic tube and they all were open and allowed the passage of air. The float was not waterlogged and the needle and seat looked like new. After putting it back together, now the generator won't run at all! It turns over and tries to start, but won't. The plugs look wet, but there is not all the raw gas coming out of the spark plug holes
or out the carb air intake like before.

I guess I will check the spark, but can't imagine that is suddenly a problem. I think it is time to remove it so I can access everything and either get a new carb or take it in for service.

Just a long shot but have you completely drained the fuel from your fuel tank?  I've seen similar problems caused by water.  Just this summer, I was trouble shooting a problem with my buddy's outboard motor.  Spark plugs looked wet and smelled like fuel but it was mostly water.  His fuel filter was completely full of discoloured water so there was no visible separation of fuel/water to be observed.  Emptied the fuel filter, & got the engine running.  When he hooked up his own fuel tank to the motor, same problems began.  We poured out the gasoline from the tank into a clear container.  Half the contents was water!   Not the first time I've seen that either  

Been gone on vacation and moving my son, but I have recently done a few other things. I cleaned the fuel tank....there was a little sediment, but no water that I could detect. I checked the fuel lines and put a new filter on and put fresh gas in with a fuel stabilizer. I checked the spark and it has good spark to both plugs. I sprayed some starting fluid in it and it fired on that, so I tried it with gas and it tried to start, but quickly dark smoke came out the exhaust and it wouldn't start. I noticed fuel at the inlet of the carb again and when I took the plugs out they were wet. When I turn it over with the plugs out, gas droplets come out the spark plug holes.

Where to go from here? It obviously seems to be a fuel problem. Didn't you say earlier it could be the carb? Do they just malfunction out of the blue like that? Is some air passage closed that floods the carb with fuel?

Sounds like the carb is pouring raw fuel into the engine.  If your float needle isn't stuck open,  I can't see any other way that the fuel could be getting in unless you have an enrichening circuit (choke) that is dumping raw fuel into the venturi.  That's basically what an enrichening circuit does.  Pull the carb and go over it with a fine tooth comb.  Check everything, pull every jet, clean every passage.  If there is an enrichening mechanism, check that too.  On the Mikuni carbs that I work on, one has an enrichening circuit.  there's an O-ring in there that if it fails, fuel will seep past it and create a rich condition.  If you take the carb completely apart, you might as well put in a  a carb kit if there's such a thing for it.  How about posting a picture and a link for info on that particular model of carb?  It would help understand it's operation a bit better. 

it sounds like you have A> the needle stuck open off the seat, or B> the needle is leaking past the seat. after you try to start it and the black smoke starts,if it has a fuel shut off close the shut off and try to start it again.if the needle and seat is faulty once the bowl and gas line starts to get empty it should start and run till it starves out.it also could be an ignition problem but i thought you said it has good spark? you could try new plugs also. the float setting can cause a too rich condition also.if the shut off point is too high the fuel level in the bowl will be high also causing the engine to run rich. most carb float bowls are in the ball park when you invert them and they rest on the seat with the float  level with the casting  the bowl itself seats or rests on.  you could shut the fuel off and drain the bowl and line by removing the float while it's on the engine.gently seat the float on the needle and slowly open the fuel shut off. if the needle and seat is good it should prevent fuel from leaking past it. you can also lift the float up and down and check for binding.

Does this have a fuel pump?   Vaccum Diaphram pump ?

Friiy

dmt58

is there any dirt in the bottom of carb bowl when u take it off? if yes clean it and re install the bowl and run engine if possible, then take the carb bowl off again and check for dirt, if dirt is present replace the fuel line going from the tank to the carb, if possible install a universal fuel filter u can get really small ones to fit in tight spaces. the smallest piece of dirt can cause the needle to stay open enough to flood the engine. double check and make sure the choke is opening correctly.

I have an EV 6010.  It has over 5000 hours on it and it generally runs very well.  I've ben told I should get up to 10,000 hours out of it.  It requires maintenance like anything else.  The best guys in the country (USA) are the guys at Hicklin Power in Iowa.  They are friendly and know this generator like no one else.  In my experience, I've found that the automatic choke, despite it looking normal, needs lubrication on occasion.  I simply spray a silicone or other product (WD 40, etc) on the linkage which does the trick.  Since I put a lot of hours on this machine, I use the maintenance kit every 250 hours (which doesn't apply to you).  It's important to have the precise Honda spark plugs in the machine (NGK).  I tried a different plug and wound up with nothing but trouble.  Make sure the proper (original) plugs are in the machine and try simply lubricating the choke linkage and see what happens.  You may be pleasantly surprised.

Knowing that it has an automatic choke will help to diagnose his problem.   You've probably pointed the user in the right direction.   Auto chokes (enricheners) are convenient but are also more complicated and do need attention.   That would be one of my first places to look. 

If you remedied your problem with the gas flooding your engine please let me know what you did because i am having the same problem.I changed the float valve,changed the plug caps all to no avail.reely need help

I have the same problem with my EV 6010 . I think the fuel pump is to powerfull for the float to shut off. did you ever fix your problem?

HAllen wrote:
Your generator has a fuel pump?  Where's the fuel tank located?

borat wrote:

My Honda EU2000's have vacuum operated fuel pumps.

snowmachine wrote: OK FIRST THING YOU WANT TO CHECK, REMOVE INTAKE FILTER COVER TO SEE IF THERE IS OIL PRESENT, IF SO REPLACE THE FILTER.  AT THE COMPANY I WORK AT THE REPAIR MANUAL SAYS YOU CAN CLEAN IT BY BLOWING OUT THE DUST AND WASHING IT WITH CLEAN OIL THAN SQUEEZE OUT THE OIL..SECOUND CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL IF IS LOW THE GENERATOR WILL RUN AND SHUT DOWN..YOU MAY ALSO CHECK THE OIL ..IF LOW FILL IT TO SPECS.    IF STILL SHUT DOWN INSPECT THE  OIL PRESSURE SENSOR LOCATED ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE BOTTOM NEXT WHERE YOU FILL THE OIL. IF IT STILL SHUT DOWN TRY THIS. THERE IS A WIRE COMING OFF THE TOP OF IT IF YOU REMOVE IT  START THE GENERATOR IF OK ..REPLACE SENSOR...I WORK ON THESES UNITS HERE IN CONNECTICUT ALL DAY..I HAVE ALL THE PARTS YOU NEED FOR A CHEAP PRICE. I REWIRE STATORS AND REBUILD CARBORATOS AND FAN MOTORS FOR THIS UNIT...CALL ME 860 505 0034...ANDRE   

dmt58 wrote:

OK FIRST THING YOU WANT TO CHECK, REMOVE INTAKE FILTER COVER TO SEE IF THERE IS OIL PRESENT, IF SO REPLACE THE FILTER.  AT THE COMPANY I WORK AT THE REPAIR MANUAL SAYS YOU CAN CLEAN IT BY BLOWING OUT THE DUST AND WASHING IT WITH CLEAN OIL THAN SQUEEZE OUT THE OIL..SECOUND CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL IF IS LOW THE GENERATOR WILL RUN AND SHUT DOWN..YOU MAY ALSO CHECK THE OIL ..IF LOW FILL IT TO SPECS.    IF STILL SHUT DOWN INSPECT THE  OIL PRESSURE SENSOR LOCATED ON THE LOWER RIGHT SIDE BOTTOM NEXT WHERE YOU FILL THE OIL. IF IT STILL SHUT DOWN TRY THIS. THERE IS A WIRE COMING OFF THE TOP OF IT IF YOU REMOVE IT  START THE GENERATOR IF OK ..REPLACE SENSOR...I WORK ON THESES UNITS HERE IN CONNECTICUT ALL DAY..I HAVE ALL THE PARTS YOU NEED FOR A CHEAP PRICE. I REWIRE STATORS AND REBUILD CARBORATOS AND FAN MOTORS FOR THIS UNIT...CALL ME 860 505 0034...ANDRE