Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

    Picked up a CCR2000E non-starter pretty cheap today.  Took the carb off for a cleaning and got it starting and running well.  But I'm not sure about what the setting should be on carb. 

   The main jet seems fixed but on top is probably a low speed adjust needle.  What is the initial setting for that?

   The Toro parts breakdown does not list the carb number, the carb as an assembly, or the carb body other than "carb body" without a part number.  The engine is a 47pml-5 Suzuki.

ke

Is the carburetor a slide type with a needle jet and jet needle?  Do you  have or can you get a picture of the carb?  If it has a jet needle, the top of the needle will have grooves in it (up to five) for a small C clip to sit in.   Put the C lip in the middle setting  to start.  If it runs too rich, move the clip up a notch.  If too lean, go down one notch.  The jet needle is for controlling approx. 25 to 75% throttle range and the main jet takes over from there. If this is a two stroke engine, you're better off being a little rich than lean.  Look for tan coloured spark plugs after a good  high throttle run.  If they're looking whitish, richen it up a bit.    

Forget the above.  I found this link for the same carb on E-Bay.  It's not a slide type carb. 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/81-1960-Carburetor-Gasket-Needle-Kit-TORO-Suzuki-47PF5_W0QQitemZ120189138218QQihZ002QQcategoryZ42230QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Borat,

The carb is on a single stage two stroke with no throttle control, just a choke. It starts and runs at full throttle.

The picture you posted is very close. The bowl nut just holds on the bowl and does not have the main jet needle threading through it. The main jet screws up through the bottom, there's no spring, and just sits in place. It's an inch and a half tube with 4 small holes on one side and two opposite. There is also one or two larger holes by the base. So, no screw in adjustment for the main jet.

The other needle on top does have a spring (on the right in the photo) and I assume is the idle adjust and the one I don't know how to set.

The machine starts and runs ok but not 100% smooth.

The carb has 96551 2252 on it but Google does not pick up anything for that.

trouts

I'm not familiar with that carb but the spring loaded screw looks as though it could be your pilot jet which assists controlling low speed operation.  Being that you have no adjustable throttle,  I'm thinking that your carb might be fine (if it's clean) and your rough running might be your spark plug.   Make sure your carb is clean and also make sure it is tightly screwed to the engine.  If the unit has an air filter put that on as well.  Try a new spark plug and let us know how it goes. 

Have you tried the Toro site?  Here's a link that might get you into their parts system.

https://www.shoptoro.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/Toro?cmd=ToroOnlineModelLookupSearch&search=model&OP=filter&isManuals=true

borat

   It should be clean.  I had the carb off and bathed with a paint brush with gas for an initial cleanup.  Then juiced all over and the internals with carb cleaner catching the drippings in a bowl which had the needles and other loose parts.  Everything got sloshed around, then brushed, and any carb parts with openings got prodded with fine wire.  The needle valve has a rubber tip instead of a separate seat.  I gave it a leak test, a needle float cutoff test and it all seemed fine. 

   It starts and runs well but still not 100% - more like 95.  It hunts a bit at first but not unusual for single stages.  After warmup it straightens out but still hunts a pinch.  If I close down what I think is the low idle adjust it hunts a bit more.  Opening a turn to two turns makes the hunting better but it's just noticeably there.  If I run out the slow idle stop position screw it makes things better.  It prevents the speed on the low side of the hunt from going low.

  I then realized I don't know what the position of the low idle stop screw should be.  It's a no throttle machine with a carb that has a low idle stop screw and what I think is a low idle adjustable needle valve with a spring.  What are they doing on a carb with no idle position, no throttle?  It's made to run wide open after starting.  It's was probably used because the carb was available, could be used in this service, and cheaper to use and existing carb than spec and build a new model. 

   If that's right then the low idle stop screw is pretty useless (unless it's used somehow for full throttle mode which could be the case).   The low idle jet is also pretty useless for a full throttle mode machine.  Regular throttled carbs with low idle adjusts do contribute to full throttle mode so it's likely that this carb is supposed to do the same thing.  The low idle gets set and contributes a bit to the full flow the machine is supposed to run at. 

   So I guess I'm in the dark about both the low speed screw and the low idle adjust.  The plug is ok but I have new spares and will put one in tomorrow.  Maybe I'm just being too fussy with an older machine (1993) and a two stroke at that.  Most of the single stages I've had hunt a bit but straighten out when loaded.  As you suggested I'll keep an eye on the plug, run it a few times and check the ash.  That will probably be the best indicator to tell if it's running right.  The Toro site parts callout does not give a number for the carb.  The carb assembly is shown as:

38185   1993   3900001-3999999 Carburetor Assembly (engine Model No. 47pm1-5)
For the carb body it has a drawing number but no part number, just the text, carburetor body, with no part number.  The drawing matches the carb so it's not a mongerl.  I could not find anything on other forums or the net in general. Most searches return a blizzard of Mikuni carbs but not this version. 

trouts2

When cleaning a carburetor, it's not recommended to use a thin wire.  Compressed air is the best. 

Make sure your carb is tightly secured to the engine and you have a good clean seal at the manifold.  Don't sweat the hunting.  It's probably your governor keeping a lid on the engine's rpms.  See how it works under load.  I've read of other small snow thrower two cycle engines doing the same thing.  As far as you carb adjustments go, can't help you there.  Maybe bring it by a repair shop and see if a mechanic can assist you with proper adjustment.  Just bring the carb.  The mechanic can refer to his reference source and tell you how to adjust each screw.  Good luck. 

I think you may have problem with how you preceive smooth running,  under load the mower engine should smooth out, at idle the mower should sound slightly rough and blubbler a little ( sould like a idleing line trimmer ,old dirt bike or big chainsaw)

I have sold about 100 of these suzuki engine 2 stoke commerial mowers by Toro.  as long as the carb does not leak and the engine does not die (I think it idles about 600 rpm)..   it is fine.

Good Luck,

Friiy

P.S.  make sure the engine does not surge when idling  or hesitate when throttled up.  Check the shaft, seal and hole for the govener shaft comming through the engine.  they erode bad from grit and dirt from mowing ( they suck air and wear out the adjustment in the linkage)

You're right about the perception problem. I've only messed with a handful of the two stroke snowblower single stages. The issue was trying to get it perfect and not knowing the factory setting for the low idle screw. A low idle screw on a no throttle machine was the weirdness. Since it was a second hand machine and I had taken the carb off and cleaned it I wanted to get the factory settings for a known start. Since posting I asked a few more dealers and they did not know. I did not know if the prior owner had messed with the setting so wondered what the factory called for.

I messed with the low idle setting for a while running it up and down trying to find its limits and one to two turns out seemed to be its range for best running.

It ran well enough. I was just trying to get that last max. The ash as Borat suggested checking was fine.

I have the same carb on my snowblower. Worked great until today. Won't start. I gave it a quick cleaning, and still nothing. I am going to give it a much better cleaning tomorrow. My question is, to the left of the needle valve, in the picture is another screw. The needle valve has a spring on it, the one to the left does not. How tight should the one on the left be tightened?

Macbass wrote:
In the picture above, the screw on the left is the pilot jet.
It is not an adjustment screw and it needs too be snug. It is soft brass and cant be reefed on too hard or it will distort.
It has a very small passage that runs from the tip where it connects with 2 larger passages on the sides.
That passage sometimes needs too be cleared with a very thin wire. When its plugged, surging is the main symptom.

I have a Mr Gasket carburetor needle valve and it's perfectly okay. Don't what settings you want but a pic would be a help.