Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

First Post for me ( so be kind):

I would love to have a 2 stage snowblower.  However for both space and financial reasons, I want to know what is the most powerful used single stage snowblower on the market?

Here are my requirements:

A) Must be able to clear up to 12" of wet or dry snow.  We usually get in the 6-8" range of dry snow here in Michigan.

B) Paved drive.  I ruled out 2 stage also because they don't clear all the way down to the pavement.

C) Must be able to make a good dent in the end of the drive snowplow buildup.

I considered a Toro CCR 3000 (5 HP Suzuki engine - model year '97 - '99),  a Toro 3650 (6.5 HP - R Tek Lawn Boy engine - model yr 2000 - 2007), an Ariens 722EC (7 HP),  or a Honda.  I found it interesting that when I talked to my local Toro dealer, he told me that the Toro CCR 3000 was actually stronger than the R tek  Lawn Boy engine in the 3650. He said it  was an underated Commercial engine that would be less prone to "bog down" in the deep stuff. When I called Toro about it, they told me that the 121cc Suzuki engine makes the same 6 ft/lbs of torque as the Larger 141cc Lawn Boy Duraforce engine in the Toro 3650. They also told me that the Suzuki engine had a Net HP of 5 and the Toro 3650 only had a net HP of 4 .  (6.5 HP Gross).

Anyone with first hand experience or knowledge here, please weigh in.

Many engines especially newer Japanese ones (Honda/Suzuki/Kawa...) are underrated in order to meet stringent environmentalist lobby-induced restrictions in certain states especially California.It seems that few environmentalists have a sound understanding of mechanics and therefore don't know that "reducing" hp rating can be as simple as stating a lower value. For this reason HP ratings on Japanese engines tend to be very conservative.

most powerfull single stage?

i think the hands down winner of this contest is the BCS tractor with a 13hp honda engine and your choice of 20", 24" or 28" single stage snowblower.

regarding your desire to get down to blacktop, a two stage with a properly adjusted scraper bar will get you real close to bare blacktop. in fact i think the new toro's have a "floating" scraper bar that will allow for pavement irregularities and still give you "down to blacktop" most of the time.

oh wait, you have space and money issues, never mind.

Anyway Gaken, to answer your original question I guess the Honda HS520AS which has a 160cc engine is one of the most powerful walk-behind single-stage out there, the nominal 5hp rating is misleading but you know that already. Capacity is 55 tons/hour, Honda engine is as reliable as they get and quiet (for a snowblower). That's the good. The bad is that it's one of the most expensive single-stages, even used ones are pricey when you can find one.

From some reports I've read, the Honda single stage units are not as effective a moving snow as the other brands.   You'll get more bang for your buck buying something else.

borat wrote:
That's a pretty bold statement, could you provide more details? Your post lead me to think that Hondas had some terrible flaw that made them the absolute worst choice but after googling it for an hour I get the opposite impression. Do you or have you owned a single-stage Honda and had a bad experience with it?

Gelid wrote:

Bold?  Why would you say that?   Are Hondas beyond reproach?  They're just machines like the others.  Seems you might be over-reacting just a bit.  No? 

I believe there were at least two posts over at the other OPE site where I read a less than favourable comment about the Honda single stage machine.  I'm not that obsessed about the subject to go looking for them.  Feel free is you so desire. 

borat wrote:
Jeez dude get a hold of yourself I was only asking why you think one specific brand is so bad, no needs to get all up in arms about it. Sheesh!

Gelid wrote:

OK.  I have a hold of myself.  Now what?  I don't own a Honda sooooo........no funny stuff.  Know what I mean? 

gaken wrote:

krislu wrote:

Thanks everyone for your response.

Krislu,

I don't think my reasons are flawed, also when I say space is a consideration, weight goes along with it.  I am used to lifting a snowblower or mower and putting it in the back of my car (for service or to clear a relative's driveway.  Not so easy to do so by yourself with  2 stage snowblowers (find a pickup truck, ramps,  second person......)   If you can benchpress 80 lbs, you are golden for "tossing " a single stage in a typical car trunk.  I like that superior power to weight ratio of  2 cycle engines.

If I am out of town when a snow storm hits, my wife will start up a single stage and clear "some" of my driveway (enough to get out).  With a 2 stage, forget about it, I better hurry home.  Maybe your wife is different.  Get my "drift"?

"Borat- I personally don't think Honda is all that either and I do find if anyone critcises honda they are open to alot of flack but I thought your post was a pretty general statement. It's ok to post that but then you should provide some proof like a link to a site where you read that. No funny stuff intended. Keep on posting."

I'll have my legal team peruse future posts to ensure I comply with your criteria. 

gaken wrote:

You should have said this in your post. Anyway good luck in whatever you decide to do. - Kris

borat wrote:

Borat- Don't get all upset now.            - Kris

I was in a similar situation as you back in November 2007.  I wanted a snowblower, but a 2-stage just doesn't work for me.  Expensive, big, and probably overkill.  I posted here in mid-November and you can look up that post for more info.  Here's the summary:

Toro:  I wanted a 4-stroke and really liked the new chute control mechanism.  However, the dealer wanted full MSRP at $760 and wouldn't budge.  Didn't seem to know a whole lot about the product -- probably spends more time learning about the 2-stagers and the myriad Stihl products he sells.

Honda:  Have had good experience with Honda engines/products in the past.  Have read lots of good reviews on the internet.  Lists for $650, but widely available at local dealers for $600.

Ariens:  Highest hp rating at 7, but a 2-stroke engine.  Could not find any information about this blower on the internet.  Ariens makes great 2-stage units, but single-stage is a completely different beast.  The ariens dealer was across town from me and I got lazy.  Never checked it out.  Still have never seen any info on it.

For me, it came down to Toro vs. Honda.  I couldn't find a reason to spend $160 more on the Toro, so I went with the Honda.  I've now used it about 6 times and here are some brief thoughts:

1)  Easiest thing to start.  I just give a limp-wristed half-hearted pull and it fires right up

2)  Eats snow.  Have had mostly 3 - 5", and our latest was 8-10".  Some spots I was blowing were over 12" deep.  The snow isn't slushy wet, but wet enough that you could make snowballs and snowmen.  No problems at all.  I tend to keep the chute pointed down, but when wide open, I think it's throwing between 25 - 35' (I can throw snow across the street and from my driveway to my neighbor's driveway).

3)  Love the chute control design.  Before using it, I was a little concerned about the handle design, versus a crank design.  I now love the handle.  I can easily reach out and spin the chute.  Takes about 0.5 seconds.  The chute has never moved on its own.

4)  My neighbor got a new CCR3650, 2-str.  Much louder and has more of a surging sound to it.  Watching him use the hand crank also makes me glad I don't have one.  With that said, his blows the snow just as well as mine does.  Performance-wise, they appear to do the same job with the same quality.

5)  Fully self-propelled.  When those augers hit the pavement, look out.  I'm 5'11" and 175 lbs and this thing will take me for a ride if I'm not careful. I ended up buying some stabilicers (metal cleats -- like Yak Trax on steroids) to keep the snowblower from dragging me around my driveway.

I am so glad now not to have a 2-stage blower.  The Honda 1-stage works so well, is easy to use, and the lawn-mower size fits my garage perfectly.  Good luck.

I just repaired my 1994 Toro CCR2000 and I am glad it's back in action.

The 1.5"x1.5"  magneto module was bad.  The guys at this site and lawnsite.com helped diagnose.

I was able to order an aftermarket module for $18.00 vs $110.00.

I have been very happy with this toro.  I used it in Burlington VT for the last 12 years on a paved driveway about 70' long 15' wide.

I recently moved to Saratoga NY and have a similar driveway. 

It gets down to pavement no problem.  The only service I had to do during it's lifetime , besides the above, was replacing the rubber augers once, and the plastic skid plate on the bottom.

I have the suzuki 141cc engine and this thing is bulletproof.

Add another vote for a single-stage...I actually sold my 2yr old 2-stage 7.5hp Craftsman earlier this season so that I could buy another single-stage, as I already owned a S-200 that is old but works great...it just does not have the power I need.  I prefer the single for pretty much all of the reasons listed above and found a used Snow Commander for a reasonable price and am very happy with it so far.

In December,  I posed the question: What is the most powerful single stage snowblower that money can buy?

Thanks for everyone's replys.

Update:

I since, was able to buy a 5 HP Toro CCR 3000 for the small sum of $75. This was a '98 model with the Suzuki engine which had been kept in storage all of its life (no dings, no scratches, no paint missing in the auger area).  After looking at its condition, and the fact that I bought it from a church  (fundraiser), my wife tells me that I am going to hell, since I did not pay them enough for it!  Well, I guess I will have to put some extra $$$ in the church offering plate on Sundays.  I have since cleared 9 - 10"  of wet  Michigan snow on two occasions.  I have been able to blow it across a two lane street without any difficulty. It did bog down some on the end of drive plow build up, but never stalled. Since I can transport it in my car trunk, I am happy, since I could not do that with my old two stage.  I can't imagine any single or two stage up to 9 HP doing much better.  ( Honda snowblower owners, time to chime in).  I have had a 3 HP, Tecumseh powered, single stage Snapper snowblower  in the past, and this one is easily twice as strong.  I also used to have a  7 HP, Kohler powered, Gravely, 2 wheel tractor with a MA210 "snow cannon", nicknamed "the beast".   This one could throw snow almost to the telephone lines.  I sold that one for safety reasons last year.  I thought "the beast" might eat one of my kids alive, since they always played so close to its menacing looking augers.

My tip for any of you two cycle users:

Autozone sells some Mobil 1 Racing 2T.  It is a 2 cycle oil designed for European Grand Prix motorcycles.  It has been discontinued, but you should still be able to find some left on the shelf.  I use it on my two cycle mowers (Lawn Boy 6 1/2 HP Duraforce and Toro with a Suzuki engine).  If you like zero smoke and next to zero odors in your clothes when you come in the house, this oil is the ticket.  I stocked up.  I got no smoke from the CCR 3000 with it either.  ExxonMobil discontinuing this product was the dumbest thing they could do.  I understand that landscapers and arborists with two cycle equipment have been complaining as well.  So don't say I didn't  tell you so.

My Question this time:

I have seen a lot of rusted out old snowblowers a lot of folks have. Will spraying silicon spray or 3 in 1 type oil prevent rust around the auger area, prior to exposing it to snow and salt?

thought i would revive this old thread as i have a question along the same lines.  how do the old suzuki engines that came in the ccr 2000/3000 compare to the newer r-tek engines that came in the powerlite, 2450's etc.  in terms of apples to apples power/hp.