Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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goofienewfie
Ariens 1130DLE
Joined: Oct 25, 2007
Points: 107
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Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Original Message Oct 25, 2007 11:12 am |
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Hello
First post, not first visit. Been reading post for about a week and now seem stuck on my final decision.
I live in Newfoundland, Canada. Hence the nickname :) We tend to get A LOT of snow here and the plows love to fill up my end of driveway (EOD) with a lot of slush, ice and snow. BIG chunks of it really. Also my driveway is a shared three car driveway with the neighbors. Which is one of the main reasons for needing a snowblower. Last year was my first time at my new house and we could not shovel on one side of the driveway. So towards the end of the season we had easily 10+ feet snow hill on our one side of the driveway, which made shoveling VERY difficult. So I am hoping that all these new snowblower will have no problem putting the snow over my neighbors car and on to his front lawn, as well as going over a 10' hill of snow. I also have another driveway that I have to clear as well, so this machine will get a lot of use.
I have been reading mostly about Toro, Ariens and a little on Honda. Not much research on the craftsman at all. I know I would love a Honda as everybody I know that has one raves about them. Not one bad thing about them. Unfortunately its out of my price range. So I have been using them as a comparison to the others.
Right now I am looking at the below models. The links are included and also my concerns on each machine.
Ariens 1130 DLE $1869 + Tax
http://www.ariens.com/snow_products/deluxe_sno_thros/1130_dle/
I lot of people seem pro ariens here. Is this bias or are they that good? Personally I seem to be leaning towards them myself. But I wonder if its the post here doing that to me. As I haven't heard much about them locally from people I talk to. All positive reviews are from online. I have heard good reviews about the toro locally tho. So I am stuck on the positive reviews on these machines. This year only one dealer locally sells them. It seems home depot dropped the line or at least here they did. Which makes me wonder why? to much troubles? Hrmmm.. Maybe toro and others gave them a exclusive deal, who knows. but it does make me wonder.
The things that make me wonder about ariens are the chute controls. Not are easy to use as the toro. But it is all steel, which seems to be a plus in my mind. The triggers do seem quite a bit stiffer then the toro, not to keen on that. Plus the springs that move the chutes make a lot of squeaking. Need some grease maybe, but will these seize up in the future?
The automatic differential only controls one wheel, why? This doesn't seem to make since to me. Are we suppose to go around in circles like a zamboni in a ice arena? Why not controls on both wheels? Also the 10hp only comes with a manual trigger. I thought I seen somewhere that this tends to work better, even tho still one wheel. Is the trigger better or automatic. For future problems, which would give less headache to fix? Automatic seems like to could be the troublesome one for that, but maybe there is little problems. I don't know.
The blades on the discharge auger seem to be a little bigger then the toro. Which is a plus. But it doesn't have the powermax system. Is it better or worse off because of this. For more, see the toro concerns below.
Also when talking to the dealer, I seem recall he said the 11hp had cast iron gearcase. But maybe I confused this between the deluxe and pro. Does this years 11hp deluxe have a cast iron gearcase?
Other then those few concerns, thats all I can think of on the ariens. Which is a good thing :) But the few that are listed are enough to make me wonder about it.
Toro Power Max 1028LXE $1849 + Tax
http://www.toro.com/intl/ca_en/home/snowthrowers/gastwostage_powermax/1028LE.html
The toro looks sweet, must say. I really like the joystick. Nothing to do with all the nintendo playing I suppose.. haha. But really, the joystick works the best of the ariens and toro. At least from my experience with showroom testing. But my concern is like others. PLASTIC? It gets very cold here and I can just see me in a hurry or tugging to hard and snap. Now what? No chute control and how long for it to be fixed. Plus I have a car, and would have to arrange transport of it. No, dealers here do not pickup or drop off without a charge.
The unlocking wheel triggers seem nice. I like the fact that I can turn on the dime, either left or right. I think the triggers are more plastic tho, not sure, memory vague on that one..
Powermax system. I believe this is talking about the extra side mouth on the discharge system. Sorry, not sure how to describe the technical side of it. But the mouth inside the collection bucket is wider on one side. It then goes up into the plastic system that directs it over to the discharge chute. I am probably going backwards as it was described to me as a place for snow to come back down the chute and into the bucket again, so that snow doesn't clog up the chute. Now I am sure this has been tested by toro thousands of times to make it a feature. But to me why is this necessary? Other snowblowers do not have it. Maybe a patent, but would it be hard to defeat a patent on something that is supposedly marvelous? Also I seen a snowblower modification you can do to decrease the gap between the discharge blades and the casing. With this power max system creating such a gap on one side, does it effect the power of suction in the casing? Suction? maybe not what I am trying to say. But like a seal going in a pump sort of. not as effective? Also this power max system is plastic too. What if a rock flicks up there? Are the benefits of this really that good?
on to the gearbox. They say it so good it doesn't need sheerpins. Well, why do that have them? Granted that are heavy duty sheerpins, I would describe them more like bolts actually. The ariens seems close in size on both the gearbox and pins, though the toro dealer tells me different. I know a common problem with snowblowers are the sheerpins and the gearbox. I was wondering if a comparison is done anywhere. I did read a little about it in snowblowers post. But was a little technical for me. Maybe I should read it again to see if I understand it more now after all this research.
All the negatives about plastic, but truly I could see it being beneficial in some ways. Being lighter and also more slick. I would think that if it is as hard as they say, then maybe it will last longer then steel. No rust after all. How much degrade in performance would I expect to see on steel, one it starts to rust or the paint wears? But I did say I was using the honda as comparison and they are steel, so that rest my mind a little.
CRAFTSMANŽ/MD 13-hp Dual-stage Snowblower $1999 + tax $500 off until Nov 4th.
http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B000I2T9UC/sr=1-1/qid=1193322074/ref=sr_1_1/105-2701412-0682067?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=16346971
Yes the craftsman that I have linked seems overkill to me. But its around the same price as the others and if I can get more for the money I want to spend, why not? The thing about the craftsman is that I have hear nightmares about them and service. Maybe the reason to stop thinking about them right there. But the features for the price makes them a contender (sort of). Am I a sucker for punishment or what? lol. Another thing about craftman is that I cannot got and see one locally, at least as far as I know. Haven't tried both sears stores, just one. The last thing is the site lacks information on all there models, I would probably go with a smaller one with the same features, but I cannot seem to compare them as the site list the features in many ways. Like some are HP, others are CC. Some say weather hydrostatic, while other that I suspect are do not. Thats probably enough to say forget them, but its still in my mind, why? hrmmm
That is most of my concerns on these machines. The Craftsman has hydrostatic like the honda and its OHV. seems everybody likes both of them. Are they worth getting if I have to compromise with a craftsman?
What are the major benefits with the below
OHV
Briggs and straton vs tecumseh.
Hydrostatic vs manual shift.
Last but not least. who is better for parts pricing? Maybe you can list some common things that need to be replaced most often on a snowblower. This way I can call around to get a idea on maintenance cost.
Wow, that was a mouthful. Sorry for the fairly long post, but this is my first time purchase of a snowblower and I really want to try my best to get it right. I have heard nightmare stories about snowblower purchases and since I am not that mechanical, I want to try my best to fall in this category.
Big thanks in advance, for helping me with my big purchase of the year. Many thanks.
Cheers
GoofieNewfie.
Cheers
Goofie Newfie
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borat
 
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #18 Nov 11, 2007 7:08 pm |
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Borat, It's, I like Ford and you like Chevy, we could debate this till H#$L freezes over! However Toro and Ariens makes good Snowblowers!! Also if you compare Simp's this year to 3 years ago, Simp has cheapened it up big time !! IMHO Fred
Hey, don't get riled up bud. I'm just telling it like it is. I just finished making the rounds and doing comparisons. The Simp had more to offer than the competition and for less money. I'm not saying Ariens and Toro aren't any good. Just not as good as the Simplicity. Particularly when you compare initial purchase price. For me, one of the most important features of the Simp is the B&S engine. I've been hearing rumblings about Tecumseh being in financial trouble and have purposely avoided machines with their engines. Ariens and Toro both use Tecumseh and Toro is still using their old L head engines. Not my cup of tea.
Say what you want. You can't argue reality.
This message was modified Nov 11, 2007 by borat
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goofienewfie
Ariens 1130DLE
Joined: Oct 25, 2007
Points: 107
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #19 Dec 12, 2007 2:14 pm |
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Don't let the bells and whistles fool you. What you want to look for is a rock solid chassis, bearings instead of bushings, steel instead of plastic, control rods instead of cables on components that can freeze and demand force to move, overhead valve engine, single and double wheel option for traction and maneuverability. You will not find all of those qualities on the box store models of Ariens or Toro. You will find them on the Simplicity and Honda. If you buy the top of the line Ariens and Toro you will get it but at a heavy price. The best unit for the money is the Simplicity. A 9.5 h.p., 28" Simplicity with all of the above qualities can be had for $1500.00 Canadian and even less if bought from the U.S. Well, its been awhile since I have been here. Been busy. Wow, what a difference the snow made to this forum. lots of post active now. Well, first a update and then a reply to borat. I ended up buying the Ariens 1130DLE. I would have loved the Honda, but the price didn't make sense. the Honda would have been about $1400 more than the ariens. I did manage to play with a Honda 928 in real conditions. It is a really nice machine and no question better then anything I have used to date. I haven't done a side by side comparison of the snow distances yet, but will before the season is out. Neighbor has one on lend while somebody moves. I will say at first glance the honda does appear to throw further, but I also notice the discharge chute goes up on more of a angle. So it can toss it further up straight in the air, but as for distance down the street, I am not sure if there is a big difference. I will test this more tho as I said earlier. The Honda discharge is more controlled. Its a fine stream rather then a rooster tail. I have only used the ariens once and the snow depth didn't really do it any justice. To really compare I am looking forward to 30 cm or more. Fill the bucket full and let her rip. Hard pack snow it tossed about 20 feet. This snow was what was shoveled to the side of the driveway prior to the snowblower. It was a heavy wet snow that was very much settled. Type of snow you probably shouldn't even attempt with a blower. But hey, new toy, must try.. :) Anyways, I will post more on this machine later as I get to play with it. Borat I read good things about simplicity. I would have loved to been able to either see or possibly buy one. But there is no simplicity dealer in my province. (Newfoundland, Canada). I agree with you on not getting caught up with the features, even tho some are sure nice to have. The 1130dle does have a rock solid chasis, at least from what I saw on other machines. Not sure on the bearings, can somebody else answer that? The machine is all steel, the chute rotation control is steel rod and gears and came well greased. The elevation chute control is a little different, I would think others are similiar in that department. I cannot see how one could have a steel rod control for that unless it was manual. The elevation is controled by a wire similar to what you would see on a pedel bike for gear shifting. half decent gauge wire covered with plastic that pulls to release a spring or something along those lines. The DLE does have automatic independent wheel control. It will apply torque on the opposite wheel depending on which way your turning.. So it has traction control for both wheels. The auger gear case is heavy duty aluminum. Not quite good as the pro's cast iron, but pretty good none the less. The shear pins are big and nowhere close to some of the rinky dinky ones I saw on some of the hardware store models. Granted the machine cost me $2100 tax it, lot more then your quoted simplicity price. But she is a 11hp and 30" cut. Not ohv, but hey, it throws snow and damn I am glad I got her. Cheers Goofie Newfie.
Cheers
Goofie Newfie
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charlie1
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Points: 4
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #20 Dec 12, 2007 4:42 pm |
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I'm sorry I didn't see this post earlier. I hope the Ariens that you purchased is not like mine.
I own an Ariens 5524 and I can tell you that it is horrible. Ariens thought of every possible sneaky way of cheapening this blower to make it look good on paper but perform horribly. It has 2 main faults that render it virtually useless:
1. The bolts that hold the impellers on. These are a soft material bolt that are designed to break just before the breaking point of the gear case. As you can see, these bolts are TINY on this unit, and they are also extremely soft. This tells you a lot about the quality of the gear case. These bolts break constantly, and you don't even have to hit a rock to break them. Just hit an icy patch of snow and they break. USELESS!
2. The "transmission", if you can call it that. This cheap rubber spinning disc transmission gets very hot after about 10 minutes of use, and it begins to slip. After 15 minutes it's time to park the thing for a couple of hours to let it cool down, since the tires won't drive anymore. And yes, I have tried adjusting it many times, it doesn't help.
I have been told that Ariens produces this junk specifically for Home Depot, so maybe if you go to an actual dealer you'll be able to find a much better model.
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goofienewfie
Ariens 1130DLE
Joined: Oct 25, 2007
Points: 107
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #21 Dec 12, 2007 4:49 pm |
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I am not sure, but I believe somewhere in this post I did bring that up about the disc o matic system. My father was pushing me toward the honda for that reason soley. The dry clutch system is by far superior then the disc o matic. I ask some people tho about it and nobody really seemed to have problems with it. The disc o matic system is just a fancy word for the same tech they have been using for years in pretty much all snowblowers before clutchs came along. They used to be prone to freezing up as well. Your post has made me nerves about it now, I sure hope I don't have that problem with the disc o matic system. As for the sheer pins, I thought they looked quite good compared to others I saw. Toro, honda and ariens seemed to be the same without actualy measuring them. I did not purchase through HD. I got it through local dealer and went for the deluxe model. They seemed to be the best out of every dealer I talked too. Support hopefully follows suit if needed. (fingers crossed it will not) Cheers Goofie Newfie
Cheers
Goofie Newfie
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jubol
Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #23 Dec 12, 2007 5:58 pm |
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Borat, Good advice!! Fred
Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower, MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP Self Prop Lawn Mower, Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis 2000
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charlie1
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Points: 4
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #25 Dec 13, 2007 2:20 am |
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I did notice that most of the Ariens models have much beefier shear bolts than the model that I have. In fact I have a very hard time finding the bolts for my model because it is one of the only ones that use the tiny bolts. If only I would have noticed this earlier. Oh well. If you got a good quality unit from a dealer you are probably fine, but I wanted to make sure that people are aware that there are substandard Ariens models out there.
This message was modified Dec 13, 2007 by charlie1
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donjag
i've gone to find myself,if i'm here when you arrive,keep me here until i get back.
Location: menasha,wisconsin
Joined: Apr 25, 2007
Points: 142
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #26 Dec 14, 2007 5:24 pm |
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add simplicity,dump craftsman,sears products suck.period.dont buy from a big box,you know who they are.spend a few bucks more,buy from a REPUTABLE dealer.he will service it for you if you dont know how to.just things i have learned,hope this helps you,happy snow throwing.
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DunkVT
Joined: Dec 22, 2007
Points: 3
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Re: Between three snowblower Models... Ariens, Toro and Craftsman
Reply #27 Dec 22, 2007 12:08 pm |
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Don't purchase a Craftsman snowblower. Period! I have owned one for 9 years (largest one they sold at the time). The problem is this: their belts are NOT standard sizes (isn't that just plain stupid) which means that local repair shops generally do not carry them. The second reason is that because they are not standard size you must purchase from Sears at a greatly inflated price. Local repairs shops don't like to stock them because of this. So I've had shops place a belt on that is close in size but does not work for long. You'll have to lug the machine back for further repairs --- after buying the belt yourself from Sears. An all around frustrating experience. Do yourself a favor -- don't buy from Sears.
This is an example of a company that has it all backwards and as a result is in financial trouble. Rather than accommodating customers and making it easy to repair their products, instead they want you to repair Craftsman products only through their repair shops and only using their parts which are greatly inflated in price. The result is such an unsatisfactory experience over time it leaves the customer heading for another product once the Crafstman dies or they get rid of it out of frustration. Doesn't sound like sustainable business practice to me. If their stock price and rumors of the company's troubles are true, many customers head for the hills after one experience with Sears. It's a shame given the need to support American products.
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