Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I thought that I would start a thread with information on the LCT engine. Since these engines starting showup in place of the Temcumseh Snow King it would be nice to have a reference thread. Here are some links with information:

http://www.lctusa.com/

http://www.j-thomas.com/Catalog/164_lct_engines.html

http://www.parsonsracingengines.com/page/lct%20racing%20engines

The Parsons Racing site also shows that some of the parts on the 208 cc engine are interchangable with Honda GX200.

There are two base versions for LCT: 208 cc and 414 cc
The 208 cc is the one used for snowblowers. It is also referred to as the StormForce. My experience with the engine is on a Poulan snowblower. I'll post more on how it works out later in the season (it's only snowed twice so far in Denver).

Sport

I looked at Poulan snowblowers last year (2008 models) that were equipped with Tecumseh Snow King motors. Since Tecumseh is out of business I assume the new 2009 Poulan (and other brands such as Troy-Built) are now equipped with LCT motors. I don't have as much small engine mechanical knowledge as most of the other guys on this board but you might want to reconsider any product with the LCT motors. I am a big fan of Briggs & Stratton motors having them in my Simplicity snowblower and my lawnmower. They are reliable and trouble-free as long as they are well maintained. Stick with the known commodity.

I disagree strongly with Summerwinds. I test snow blowers & have been very impressed with the LCT engines. They are very conservatively  (under)rated & very reliable.  We ran the 208 cc engines the winter before last & put  over 300 tough hours on them with no problems. I have never tested a stronger snow blower motor than the 414 cc model. I agree that Briggs is a known commodity, but among all the testers I know, they are known as absolute JUNK!  I think LCT will become the preferred snow blower engine now that Tecumseh is gone.

stanger,
Over the many years I've heard many people make a statement about a particular engine company being absolute "junk".  I usually take that comment with a grain of salt.  A more useful discussion would be to share why you like the LCT engine.  Is it quiet?  Is it smooth?  Does it use less fuel?  Does it start easy?  Are the controls easy to use?  Hours run is certainly a very good start, but 300 hours is not many for an engine.  Heck I have 200 hours on a John Deere twin cylinder Kawasaki engine and it's been great so far.  However it has a known problem... a plastic camshaft gear of all things.  I found it hard to believe they used plastic and I plan to replace it since around the 700-900 hour range it will break.  That engine should have been good for well over 2000 hours without an issue.  So give us a few details about why LCT is a good engine.  I would also like to hear why other testers consider B&S junk.  Give examples and this would be a much more useful thread.

My experience with LCT is that they are very reliable & very powerful. They run smoothly & start easily. We tested these engines in very tough conditions in the U.P. of Michigan. They are not quiet, especially the 12 horse.  in fact loud exaust would be my main complaint against LCT.  The 208 seems really easy on fuel & would easily run 3 (or more) hours on a tank of fuel, the 12 horse would usually run out right around 2 hours.  300 hours is twice the amount of engine testing we generally do since it was a new  brand. Most of the Briggs we tested died before 150 hours. The Briggs may be o.k. for areas that only receive light snowfall, but my experience shows they don't hold up well when they are really taxed. We tested several brands of engines & the LCT were the favorite of nearly every tester. I'm told Husqvarna which makes many brands of snow blowers ordered a few hundred thousand of them after testing the available options.  Surely name recognition is important to consumers, but customer satisfaction & warranty costs are more important to the manufacturer.  If the Briggs were good, they would  use them, but they don't last through the warranty period.  Give me a Briggs on my lawn mower, but keep it off my snow blower.

Something I have often wondered, but have never seen definitively answered..

We know these are "Honda Clone" engines made in China..one link in this thread shows how parts are totally compatable with a real Honda engine..

so..are these engines rip-offs of Honda engines?
made in China without Honda's permission?
Stealing Honda's intellectual property?

or are they "legit" in some sense?
if so..how?
Is Honda paid for the use of their technology?
are they somehow licensed from Honda?
possibly even built by a Honda subsidiary, that Honda doesnt want to admit? ;)

lot of possibilities obviously..
does anyone know the answer? for a fact? not just a guess?

The answer to that question would be a definate factor in wheter I will ever own one of these engines or not..

thanks,
Scot

Shoot! Who know what the deal is between Honda and the Chinese? I know for a fact that Honda is inextricably entwined with Chinese manufacturers for everything from small engines to car parts. Honda is in there in a big way and have millions of small engines manufactured there. if you do a search for China & Honda, you'll be taken down a circuitous manufacturing trail with enough twists and turns to confuse even the most savvy internet user. Now, regarding the Honda clone engines. I'm not completely certain that the 208cc LCT engine is a Honda clone. Honda's GX200 is a 196cc engine. Their next engine in size is the GX240 which is 242ccs. I have a Mitsubishi 6.5 h.p. engine on my pressure washer. It's 208ccs, The same displacement as one of the LCT engines. So, I suspect that the 208cc LCT is likely a Mitsubishi knock off. I would also like to add that my Mitsubishi engine does not have a country of origin label on it. Accordingly, I suspect it's Chinese. I've been using it under normal conditions for over five years now and it's been great. I recently bought a Champion Generator (Chinese) with a 196cc Honda clone engine. I've only put five hours on it and although I have no idea how well it will hold up, I will say that it's one of the nicest, smoothest, quietest and efficient single cylinder air cooled engines I've had the pleasure to use. Only time will tell how durable it will be. I think the remarks about the B&S engines might be a bit off the mark. I have a 305cc on my snow thrower and it's a damned good engine. It's only got 30 hours on it so, it's still fairly fresh. It starts well, and runs strong although, it's not quite as smooth as either of the other two engines previously mentioned. That might have something to do with it being 33% larger. Regardless, it's been a very good engine so far. If it craps out, I'll most likely re-power with an LCT or Champion engine.

stranger you said that you test snowblowers...For who and which ones??Are you an engineer??What r your qualifications to say that B&S snowblower engines are junk??Personal opinion is great but do u have the data to back up your ridiculous statement??

borat wrote:I have a 305cc on my snow thrower and it's a damned good engine. It's only got 30 hours on it so, it's still fairly fresh. It starts well, and runs strong although, it's not quite as smooth as either of the other two engines previously mentioned. That might have something to do with it being 33% larger. Regardless, it's been a very good engine so far. If it craps out, I'll most likely re-power with an LCT or Champion engine.

HTTPs://ouppes.com

Yo Snowmachine: I know what you mean by "purring" engines on the generators. Even the cheap little Champion I have is impressively smooth and quiet. However, in all fairness, those engines are rubber mounted and have comparatively huge mufflers. Another thing we have to consider, is that when an engine is mounted in a generator or pressure washer, we have no physical contact with them once they're running. On a snow thrower, the engine is solidly mounted and we have to grapple with it for sometimes hours. That might be why I perceive the other two engines to be smoother. In reality, they just might not be.

I was at Northern Tool looking at a Honda GX390 ($649) and an LCT414 ($399) today.  It sure looked like many of the parts were interchangeable but who knows how they compare inside.  I have to admit that if I was looking for a new engine I would consider the LCT.

You can tell that the Chinese engines are gaining acceptance just by the price increase. Can't say for sure about that LCT414, but it seems the prices for them are going up fairly fast.

I'm getting a new blower. One of my choices is the Poulan PR1330ES with the LCT 414cc motor. It's the only blower I can find with this engine. The next closest engine is a 357cc motor (B&S, I think). However, there's a 45" Craftsman/Toro/etc blower with a 420cc engine. Who makes that enigne?
Aside from the 420cc engine, which I can't find any HP or Torque ratings on, is the LCT414 the biggest blower enigne available?

The LCT 414cc is a 12 hp power engine.

The 420cc engine is marketed by MTD's Powermore brand and from what I understand is made by Zongshen in China.

http://www.powermore.ca/powermore/

Catt wrote:
Thanks, Catt. It would appear that Zongshen makes the 357cc engine as well.

SEARS has a Boxing Day special on their Craftsman snowblower, with an LCT Storm Force 208cc engine.  Electric start, 24 inch width.  A small machine, but okay for homeowner use, I guess.  Price here in Canada is $599, a $300 saving.  Does this sound like a good deal?  I was nervous about the Chinese-made LCT engines until I read the positive reviews posted here.

Does anyone have access to the LCT 414cc Storm Force engine mounted in a Husqvarna 1830 EXLT "Snow King" and an LCT 414cc MAXX GEN generator that can confirm if the mufflers are interchangeable? I'd take a 1 ft-lbs loss for a decent noise reduction.

gnurob wrote:
With that size of an engine on a 30" machine, why not just cut back on the throttle a bit.  Run it at 3000 instead of 3600 and the noise reduction will be noticeable but power loss minimal..

borat wrote: The storm force motor is only a single speed.  It's either on or off, no inbetween based on everything I've read on it.

duplicate

Yes, having no throttle control is definitely a disappointment. Just backing it in/out of the shed is a roar.

Its not that its a bad engine--it is definitely is a powerful brute--but its over the threshold of what I would operate early AM or late PM. I assume the 414 cc MAXX GEN model is a fair bit quieter. So far the only video I could find was for a Northern Technologies arc welder/generator. It sounded quiet but the brief clip was at idle (it gets a throttle, go figure).

LCT replied to my question on compatibility. No confirmation of fitment but they did say that the generator motor relies on the generator frame to support the muffler. If somewhere were to attempt this mod they would have to count on some additional fabrication.

If only a few clear pictures were available...

Try adjusting the governor to reduce rpm. 

If you're keen on a different muffler, you might be in for some mount fabrication. It can be done however, a fair bit of trial and error will be required and attachment points might be an issue.

Have you thought of just adding a length of flex pipe inside the exhaust hole and running it down to the bottom of the chassis.  It should attentuate some of the sound.  At the very least, it will take the raspy bark out of it.